Arrh...my first Reverb.com purchase is terrible

[ToneMonkey]

I've never once represented any item I've sold as mint. Unless it's never been touched and is unopened in the original packaging, it can't be mint. That should have been your first tip that you couldn't trust this seller.

 

[mdogs]

We can’t lose sight of the fact that the OP also was upset about the finish on the neck, something about it being deglossed below the nut. Which, of course, the rest of the world knows about this finish on MM Basses.

 

[Bigbri]

Mint, in various areas of collecting, has not meant unused for a good while, about 30 years ago, in colloquial usage. Yes, it may not be the textbook definition, but it is how it is used. To me mint would mean with no signs of wear, and indistinguishable from new, apart from perhaps the sticky plastic on the tort pickguard removed, but there are people who would use the term mint to mean excellent. In the world of collecting, many shops do keep to using mint to mean its textbook definition, or avoid the term entirely, but that is because, at least in the UK, you could easily return an item to a shop if it was not mint, had it been described as mint, but you would have little recourse with a private sale.

It's a lot easier just to use 1-10. Or simply. Mint/player/beat. The only thing that really matters is the percentage of original parts. I had a very rare p bass dated 1-57 that literally did not have a mark on it. Still shiny, I called it virtually unplayed. The only thing I regret is not playing it properly. We used to buy and sell them all the time over the phone. I only had one that "wasn't called right" that was a 60 stacknob with frets worn to the bone. It was unpayable, but as a refin for 1500 I didn't even mention it.

 

[Bigbri]

Regardless of whether or not we think the OP overrated and may be a bit nit-picky vs. did the seller misrepresent the bass, the one thing that many of us are missing here is you really have to read between the lines and take the way someone describes a piece of gear with a grain of salt. I've seen craigslist listings where it's described as "like new" but then you read on and/or look at the photos and and it's telling you a different story.

If you're naive enough to just go with the category the seller has chosen and leave it at that, I'm sorry to say that you almost deserve what you get. If you're someone who's super worried about little nicks on the back of the neck like the OP, then do yourself a favor and SPECIFICALLY ask the seller something like, "Are there ANY dings, no matter how small on the back of the neck, because that would be a deal breaker for me", and also ask for additional pictures showing this. If the seller says nope, there aren't any, but you receive the bass and it has dings in it, you now have absolute recourse. If you ask the seller, "Has the bass been modded in any way, pickups or electronics modded/swapped, etc?" and they say no but the bass arrives and you remove the pickguard and it's a rat's nest under there, you have absolute recourse.

If you're someone who is REALLY picky and absolutely MINT, untouched, not even a smudge or scuff you really shouldn't be buying any used bass that you dont have the opportunity to put your hands on the instrument in person, or the place your buying from has a return policy that will allow you to return the instrument for any reason.

I have my own things that keep me from buying something off line from Reverb. Usually I steer clear of buying ANY guitar or bass sight unseen because I've learned my lesson. I know what to look for and what questions to ask because of both good and bad experiences and from learning about what questions to ask and what to look for. Still, this doesn't guarantee 100% success every time, but it puts the odds in your favor from getting burned next time. Like I said, I usually just steer clear of buying anything, even with basses in the Classified section on this site. I've corresponded with some sellers and ask specific questions, and if my gut isn't feeling it, I pass.

It shouldn't be this tough, but if you're naive enough to know that there aren't people out there who are going to fudge on the condition and hope you wont notice, or wont go through the hassle of filing a claim and hopefully getting a return, then dare I say you're probably gonna get burned at some point.

Ask for really good pics. People throw money at desirable vintage guitars. If you want to see whats out there go to a real guitar show. Over the phone, assume everything has a ding somewhere and pay accordingly.

 

[Bigbri]

Mint.

 

[Vinnie Boombatz]

We can’t lose sight of the fact that the OP also was upset about the finish on the neck, something about it belong deglossed below the nut. Which, of course, the rest of the world knows about this finish on MM Basses.

Exactly, which is why as a buyer you need to do your homework first. Being an informed buyer makes it a much better experience for all parties involved. Even if I am going to a brick and mortar store to buy a piece of gear, I first do some research online and learn a bit about the gear in question so I actually know what I'm talking about when I go into the shop, because as well all know, a lot of salespeople don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Ask for really good pics. People throw money at desirable vintage guitars. If you want to see whats out there go to a real guitar show. Over the phone, assume everything has a ding somewhere and pay accordingly.

And to elaborate on pics, if as a seller you actually take a few more minutes to get better lighting, and take some nice pics, there's a good chance that your instrument will sell much faster. People that post crap, blurry pics with the bass leaning up against a bathroom door and a messy room and un-made bed in the background blow my mind. Make your damn bed and take some decent pics!

 

[Vinnie Boombatz]

It's a lot easier just to use 1-10. Or simply. Mint/player/beat. The only thing that really matters is the percentage of original parts. I had a very rare p bass dated 1-57 that literally did not have a mark on it. Still shiny, I called it virtually unplayed. The only thing I regret is not playing it properly. We used to buy and sell them all the time over the phone. I only had one that "wasn't called right" that was a 60 stacknob with frets worn to the bone. It was unpayable, but as a refin for 1500 I didn't even mention it.

Your 10 may be someone else's 8.5, so again, it's more about the pictures and asking your own questions about things that are important to you.

 

[Omega Monkey]

People that post crap, blurry pics with the bass leaning up against a bathroom door and a messy room and un-made bed in the background blow my mind. Make your damn bed and take some decent pics!

The ones that really get me are the ones that take a pic of their vintage instrument (or any instrument really), laying directly on their driveway, patio, deck, etc... Are you f'ing mentally challenged? What would possess you to think that's a good idea? At least lay down a towel or a sheet or something. Jesus.

 

[Iridescentone]

My experience with reverb has been positive. With paypal - not so much. Reverb stood behiind me in two purchases where seller lied about "no buzz" and "electronics work fine". Paypal I have few problems with - they barely speak English, they do NOT read each other's notes on account, and most of all - they do understand YOU completely. Most paypal is in China or Phillippines, some are in India, in many cases their accent is just atrocious and their understanding of English is spotty, as is their communication with each other. Having said that - there are plenty of SOB sellers. Do not let them get away with it. Nail them with negative reviews if they give you ANY hassle at all...

Why are you "talking" with Paypal people, anyway? The entire return process can be handled via email and PM. I've been dealing with Paypal as a buyer and a seller since 2003, and have never had to "speak" with anyone at Paypal about anything.

When I got screwed on a Reverb deal, I had to spend time emailing and phoning Reverb reps just to figure out what the hell was happening. This involved leaving messages that took days to get a response to. When I did get to speak to a human, they fobbed me off with BS like..."in situations like these, we don't cover any shipping costs."

Situations like what?....like when the seller answered my PM's about the condition of the neck and truss rod, but totally lied, and shipped me a bass with a ruined and un-fixable neck?....that kind of "situation"? But at least I got screwed "in English". Great fun.

I mentioned earlier that after that reaming job, I was pissed enough to leave the dirtbag Reverb seller a negative feedback.....and that soon after having done so, unbeknownst to me, Reverb removed it from the seller's feedback history.

IOW, the nice people at Reverb are perfectly happy to "scrub" feedback histories of negative feedbacks in order to keep their sellers looking clean. I've never heard of such a unilateral maneuver happening on ebay.

Exit question; Do you really feel good about doing business through a broker like Reverb that seems perfectly comfortable deceiving prospective buyers about the integrity of their sellers? I certainly don't.

 

[mcnach]

We can’t lose sight of the fact that the OP also was upset about the finish on the neck, something about it belong deglossed below the nut. Which, of course, the rest of the world knows about this finish on MM Basses.

THAT'S NOT TRUE!!!!

(the bit about the rest of the world knowing it... and... look at my avatar )

 

[MordBass]

Mint, in various areas of collecting, has not meant unused for a good while, about 30 years ago, in colloquial usage. Yes, it may not be the textbook definition, but it is how it is used. To me mint would mean with no signs of wear, and indistinguishable from new, apart from perhaps the sticky plastic on the tort pickguard removed, but there are people who would use the term mint to mean excellent. In the world of collecting, many shops do keep to using mint to mean its textbook definition, or avoid the term entirely, but that is because, at least in the UK, you could easily return an item to a shop if it was not mint, had it been described as mint, but you would have little recourse with a private sale.

I would agree with this. Mint is same as new... but not legally new. As in, you arent the authorized reseller that ordered it from the manufacturer.

 

[MordBass]

Your 10 may be someone else's 8.5, so again, it's more about the pictures and asking your own questions about things that are important to you.

So much truth to this. Look at yelp and google reviews and imdb and all the other sites out there. Its an ocean of 1star or 5stars. Most people dont have any real grasp of what an honest rating of something is.

 

[Iridescentone]

I would agree with this. Mint is same as new... but not legally new. As in, you arent the authorized reseller that ordered it from the manufacturer.

Right, and only an authorized dealer can sell it as new and issue an effective factory warranty.

However, an authorized dealer can sell a shopworn floor model (aka 'demo') as brand new with an effective factory warranty. Which may open another can of worms, because there are dealers who will sell a factory blem (aka '2nd', 'refurb', etc) online as brand new w/warranty, without ever disclosing the defect.

I think the takeaway from this thread is;

As a buyer, stay with vendors that have a solid buyer protection policy in place.

As a seller, make the effort to CYA and minimize your exposure to risk. And that simply means full disclosure, period.

 

[Charlie28711]

I bought a "As New" Fender P bass from a guy in Texas via reverb a year or so ago. The ad said that he was a newb, this was his first P bass, he didn't like the feel of the neck and was selling to fund another bass. The pics looked good etc.
I got it and the neck was a banana. The truss rod adjustment was frozen. The bass was unplayable
It turned out that the seller knew this prior to sale. He did offer to pay for return and full refund. So that was all good.
But when I wrote a negative review of the seller because of his deceit REVERB removed it because he did offer to refund my money and the fact that he TRIED to perpetrate a fraud was no matter to them. So in spite of this he still has an excellent rating.

 

[David Ferrare]

A few things here..

1. I been ordering on reverb for years and never had any issues, in the rare cases that i had to return something the shipping was refunded as well. He/she does not have to refund the shipping ,but he/she should.
2. If you paid 575 for a Ray 34 this should in near perfect shape (mint) if you paid for 450 ish for it for a "very good" condition then you should expect dings.. But for 575 it should be perfect. Hell they are like $625.00 new.
3. IMO if you lose 50 bucks on the deal, its worth it to get a full refund. I would not hold this up for 50 bucks. I think the Reverb policy is 14 days, and you could lose that.

 

[FB5]

IMHO, those "digs" are definitely minor, but that's besides the point. I'd tell you to calculate the hours and hours and hours and hours you are going to spend "attempting" to get the full refund and decide what your time is worth.

I'd chalk the $50 up to your tuition in the "School of Hard Knocks". Congrats, looks like you graduated.

Next time, hit the guitar shop and pay full price. (Bet that costs more than $50)

 

[viclobocga]

Saw a Ray 34 described as excellent. I emailed the seller whether there were dings or scratches on the neck. He wrote me it was in MINT condition.

I received the bass today. At least 7 nicks on the neck. Two biggest nicks are behind the first fret, so my thumb feels them. Also, someone messed up with the neck finish behind the nut.

He told me that he would issue a return minus the $50 original shipping, and that return shipping would be on me. I wrote him, "Please issue me a full refund and return shipping because the item is not advertised. Otherwise, I'd have to escalate the issue." The seller got upset because I was threatening him(!!!) and wouldn't agree to issue a full refund.

I've contacted Reverb, but I'm not sure how so-called Reverb Protection works. I paid with Paypal. What is my option if the seller doesn't cover return shipping and doesn't issue a full refund?

Register a complaint with Pay pal to indicate that the merchandise was not as advertised; they will negotiate a refund with the seller. Also, register a negative feedback on the seller so that the other buyers are made aware of his tactics.

 

[Sylmartian]

Saw a Ray 34 described as excellent. I emailed the seller whether there were dings or scratches on the neck. He wrote me it was in MINT condition.

I received the bass today. At least 7 nicks on the neck. Two biggest nicks are behind the first fret, so my thumb feels them. Also, someone messed up with the neck finish behind the nut.

He told me that he would issue a return minus the $50 original shipping, and that return shipping would be on me. I wrote him, "Please issue me a full refund and return shipping because the item is not advertised. Otherwise, I'd have to escalate the issue." The seller got upset because I was threatening him(!!!) and wouldn't agree to issue a full refund.

I've contacted Reverb, but I'm not sure how so-called Reverb Protection works. I paid with Paypal. What is my option if the seller doesn't cover return shipping and doesn't issue a full refund?

Can't wade through 13 pages to see if I'm duplicating anyone else's reply, but as a seller on Reverb who has had items returned, this is not a difficult call, nor a judgement call on anyone's part:
1) Read the seller's return policy. The standard policy states that if the item is 'not as advertised' you are entitled to a full refund including shipping costs within the return period. Notifying the seller within the return period is sufficient to secure your rights in the transaction. That said, shops can set up their own policies or sell 'as is'.
2) Reverb has a definition of 'Mint' and it's sufficiently explicit and detailed to compare with the condition of the bass and determine whether it meets the criteria. If I recall, a mint condition instrument should be indistinguishable from one you would receive as new from a manufacturer or retail shop.

 

[Jim C]

My first and possibly last Reverb experience was horrible.
My girl bought me a used Ashdown ABM 500 for Christmas.
Should had known there was going to be a problem as it was $300 WITH a flight case.
Amp had a bad mute circuit and power supply caps; if you unplugged the input jack or put it in standby, it would take approx. 2 minutes before the sound came back on although the input meter showed signal.

It was more than 10 days for a Reverb return (bought before Christmas).
Contacted the sell, explained the situation, told him the amp sounded great but was worried about longevity.
He said it was fine when it left his shop although he didn't test it; a friend use it and it was fine
Also said I would pay the $50 shop fee (authorized Ashdown repair) as he did give me a great deal and wanted to work with him. He agreed. The repairs were $171 and I wanted 1/3rd.
The prick offered $40 or send the amp back; I took the $40.
The amp should be repaired this week and hope there isn't some other issue.
In hindsight, I would rather see him eat the shipping and send it back as he was lying.
The tech said no way filter caps and other components would have all gone bad in shipping.

Don't trust Christopher's Gear Outlet, Neconset, NY
Christopher Reis