Arrh...my first Reverb.com purchase is terrible

[chadbag]

Paypal, which belongs to eBay

This is no longer true. PayPal was spun off in 2015 and is a separate company. (And eBay is more and more divorcing themselves from the "intertwined-ness", including on some transactions, probably seller set, of accepting credit cards directly outside of PP).

PayPal - Wikipedia

 

[bassstrangler]

Can we call this one yet?

 

[speedcrank]

Even when the seller misled as in this case, does the buyer usually have to pay for return shipping? If so, I doubt I'll ever buy a bass again on Reverb.

Buyer paying return shipping is common even with commercial companies IF for example you ordered the wrong item. In this case, where the item was obviously misrepresented, return shipping and full refund should be on the seller.

 

[Iridescentone]

I dont know about in the US but Ive used ebay here in Oz to buy a couple of guitars in the past that have had similar issues to this, I opened a dispute with ebay and the seller has to pay return shipping, both times the seller argued it but when I upgraded it to a dispute ebay made them cover the whole cost.

Right, same here with me in the US. But in my cases, the emails sent to me from Paypal (that came with the printable return shipping labels) seemed to infer that Paypal was absorbing the return shipping costs themselves, as opposed to penalizing the seller for them. I assume this is a facet of their buyer protection policy.

The original shipping cost was of course charged back to the seller as it should be, thereby penalizing the dishonest seller for failing to fully disclose defects, as per ebay's clearly stated rules.

 

[Iridescentone]

My first and possibly last Reverb experience was horrible.
My girl bought me a used Ashdown ABM 500 for Christmas.
Should had known there was going to be a problem as it was $300 WITH a flight case.
Amp had a bad mute circuit and power supply caps; if you unplugged the input jack or put it in standby, it would take approx. 2 minutes before the sound came back on although the input meter showed signal.

It was more than 10 days for a Reverb return (bought before Christmas).
Contacted the sell, explained the situation, told him the amp sounded great but was worried about longevity.
He said it was fine when it left his shop although he didn't test it; a friend use it and it was fine
Also said I would pay the $50 shop fee (authorized Ashdown repair) as he did give me a great deal and wanted to work with him. He agreed. The repairs were $171 and I wanted 1/3rd.
The prick offered $40 or send the amp back; I took the $40.
The amp should be repaired this week and hope there isn't some other issue.
In hindsight, I would rather see him eat the shipping and send it back as he was lying.
The tech said no way filter caps and other components would have all gone bad in shipping.

Don't trust Christopher's Gear Outlet, Neconset, NY
Christopher Reis

Did you leave a feedback for the seller?

 

[Iridescentone]

I haven't had an issue with reverb.com specifically, but if it was completed through paypal, you could raise the case with them. I've had one bad experience buying and selling online and it was actually here on Talkbass with payment through Paypal. I sold an Ampeg head to a new user (no Feedback). The whole time prebuy, the buyer expressed how much he hated Ampeg and the Ampeg tone and was buying it only because it was required in his area to be considered a professional bassist.(How dumb.) I sold it to him after expressing reservations. He busts my balls to ship it out ASAP. I jump through hoops to get it out same day. He gets it, and essentially tells me it isn't what he wanted although it was a fully functioning head and files a claim to paypal to get his refund. (Here's where it could pertain to your situation.) Paypal, which belongs to eBay, immediately issued the full refund because it claimed that transactions completed outside of eBay have no burden of proof from the buyer to prove foul before issuing a refund. They do not consider any non eBay related messages, because it has no way of cleanly proving authenticity of communication. It is easier to provide refund then actually investigate fraud. In the end Paypal issued him a full refund & me a credit for the cost of shipping, because of my good standing history with Paypal. If they hadn't, I would have been out the cost of shipping all because he bought an amp he knew going into it he didn't like.

You probably won't need to go to the extent of going to Paypal, but if Reverb.com doesn't take care of you, as the buyer Paypal will. (Sellers beware.)


(Side note: I ended up selling the Ampeg to be used as a backline for a bluegrass festival. Performed flawlessly as I'm sure it continues to. What a douche.)

This is the crux of the issue, and why buying from ebay is the safest path. Ebay is Paypal. They will protect ebay buyers first and foremost.

However, don't expect Paypal to always come to the rescue for shipping costs when things go sideways with a Reverb purchase, for the very reasons you've stated above. They may distance themselves from the issue like they did with me because, again, Reverb is not ebay/Paypal.

I would note that I have a 15-year good standing with Paypal/ebay, but there can be circumstances where that may not always help....like a Reverb deal gone bad. Cheers.

 

[Chrisk-K]

I'm the OP. Reverb is sending me a return shipping label and the seller is expected to give me a full refund including original shipping.

 

[chadbag]

This is the crux of the issue, and why buying from ebay is the safest path. Ebay is Paypal. ...

No, they are not. eBay divested itself of PayPal in 2015 and has slowly been disentangling themselves of PayPal. PayPal is still the preferred (and often only) payment method on eBay, but they are not the same company, have different policies and rules, (and goals / business objectives), and many times you can use a credit card directly on eBay without using your PayPal account or being transferred to PayPal (as just one sign of change).

An update to our customers

 

[murdockbass]

30 seconds with a wet towel and a soldering iron and those dings are gone. Yeesh. Hardly worth the stink you're raising.

This is why I generally sell instruments to GC/Sam Ash, because I don't want to deal with guys like this. I sell small stuff, but, with all the "museum curators" with their retentive electron microscopes, I'd just rather take the hit and eliminate grief.

 

[Keep in Da Beat]

Even when the seller misled as in this case, does the buyer usually have to pay for return shipping? If so, I doubt I'll ever buy a bass again on Reverb.

Your experience has nothing to do with Reverb. The seller misrepresented the item, not Reverb. However, you can work with Reverb and Paypal to get your money refunded. If you're that upset about it and set on returning the bass, you might have to cover the cost of the freight. Either that or try to sell the bass at price which will cover the total cost you paid.

I've had good luck buying and selling on Reverb. The only issue was when I was trying to buy a 2 space rack from a local seller. He refused to allow me to pick up the item and insisted that I let him ship it at my expense. I declined and we agreed to cancel the transaction.

 

[Keep in Da Beat]

Bull poopie that’s why you always use PayPal in transactions like this. If seller misrepresented himself you are not obligated to pay return shipping. Also contact Reverb sellers are rated like EBay. Good luck !!!

 

[Iridescentone]

No, they are not. eBay divested itself of PayPal in 2015 and has slowly been disentangling themselves of PayPal. PayPal is still the preferred (and often only) payment method on eBay, but they are not the same company, have different policies and rules, (and goals / business objectives), and many times you can use a credit card directly on eBay without using your PayPal account or being transferred to PayPal (as just one sign of change).

An update to our customers

This is true. Even so, the support from Paypal for ebay buyers goes beyond what is extended to other clients. As long as that continues, ebay buyers are still protected as if nothing had changed. That's what matters to buyers, and why ebay is safer than Reverb, to whom the same level of buyer protection is not extended.

"eBay and PayPal are now separate companies, which means we are not part of the same group of companies anymore. You can be confident this doesn't change our commitment to our customers. We're more excited than ever to bring you a seamless and enjoyable experience.

You can keep using PayPal on eBay just like you do today; that won't change.

We'll also continue to share some customer information between eBay and PayPal to provide you the same level of customer support and fraud detection you get today."

 

[togril]

If you like the bass otherwise - perhaps you should negotiate for a partial refund and keep the bass. It is extremely easy (well it was for me) to buy a set of micromesh abrasive pads (finest one is 12000 grit or so) and drop fill the nicks and polish them out. There are YouTube videos that show the process.

I must say this is a good idea if you don't mind doing work yourself. BUT make sure it's a decent drop for your time and effort. The Neck has been nicked and FOR SURE the neck has been de-glossed. Hardly mint in ANY way. Ripping you off Period. I would want. complete refund like you. And somehow (once i had the money) notify Reverb somehow. They are getting a bad name for this as it is. At least you used Pay Pal.

 

[Duder]

I'm the OP. Reverb is sending me a return shipping label and the seller is expected to give me a full refund including original shipping.

It sucks that this was such a hassle, but I'm glad that worked out.

 

[BuffaloBill]

Respectfully, if what you've shown in your photo is representative of the "seven dings" you're concerned about, I would strongly recommend you take the $50 hit now and forever refrain from purchasing anything online, particularly if it is used. In short, if you want new, buy new; and do so in person.

And I will add; to the original complainer, don't ever buy anything from me. I hate this thread.

 

[Timm Grimm]

This is the crux of the issue, and why buying from ebay is the safest path. Ebay is Paypal. They will protect ebay buyers first and foremost.

However, don't expect Paypal to always come to the rescue for shipping costs when things go sideways with a Reverb purchase, for the very reasons you've stated above. They may distance themselves from the issue like they did with me because, again, Reverb is not ebay/Paypal.

I would note that I have a 15-year good standing with Paypal/ebay, but there can be circumstances where that may not always help....like a Reverb deal gone bad. Cheers.

Paypal covering my shipping was never a given as the seller. They did that as pittance for my situation and good standing. I say that as encouragement for him the buyer to know he has a second layer of protection is his case, as well as general info for potential sellers here and otherwise.

 

[Deiph]

After 15 pages and almost 300 posts, this has a happy ending. Thank God.

The seller was lazy, if not dishonest. The buyer was obsessive and more concerned with being right than keeping the bass. They deserved each other.

 

[Timm Grimm]

This is no longer true. PayPal was spun off in 2015 and is a separate company. (And eBay is more and more divorcing themselves from the "intertwined-ness", including on some transactions, probably seller set, of accepting credit cards directly outside of PP).

PayPal - Wikipedia

Did that change their method of determining judgment when dealing with disputes? This IDK. I'd be curious to see what burden of proof is needed these days when dealing with say, a talkbass dispute. For me, the safest bet is having a measuring stick when dealing with online used deals of $200+.

The talkbass (& reverb for the most part.) feedback system gives me the biggest warm and fuzzy that I'm dealing with someone experienced in these types of deals. With experience comes expectation management. That is where I feel my deal went south. He didn't know what level of responsibility he had as the buyer of an online bazaar such as this or reverb. He received an Item he was ultimately unhappy with and put the onus on the seller for not providing a potential descriptor that would have prepared him for that unhappiness. Same with the OP. Experience will tell you, that in most instances you are dealing with an individual and not a business. It's a thin line between accurate/inaccurate description and buyers inflated expectation level if the buyer's expectations aren't realistic.

In truth I deal with more frustration over terrible packing then I do inaccurate description. As long as the seller accurately (individual assessment) describes the tier of condition (Mint, excellent, good, fair, parts) then I have no qualms over a little age. But if they had told me they were going to stick it in a box too small with 1 piece of bubble wrap, then I'd rather either pass or pay the extra $5 it'd have cost them to properly pack and ship.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Chrisk-K said:
"Saw a Ray 34 described [in the listing] as excellent. I emailed the seller whether there were dings or scratches on the neck. He wrote me it was in MINT condition.

I received the bass today. At least 7 nicks on the neck. Two biggest nicks are behind the first fret, so my thumb feels them...."

.....move forward with the lessons you've learned, whether that means never buying used again, never using Reverb again, or simply heeding the original listing's details from here on out.

The bass was listed as "excellent", which is not the same thing as "mint", and it's pretty easy to see how a cosmetic blemish that's difficult to even photograph would be easy to miss.

~
It's a tough one this time, because even though the listing designated it as 'excellent', the seller personally called it 'mint' within direct correspondence with the buyer.

Regardless, three things apply.

Sellers should be more careful - what they list, and how accurately and in how much detail that they examine and describe it, and should provide those extra photos WITHOUT BEING ASKED.

Buyers should be more careful - what questions to ask, how many more photos on which to insist, and what chances to take, as well as learning the rules of each middle organization (selling partner) BEFORE BUYING.

Middle organizations which make a commission on the sale (such as Reverb) should be more careful in what rules they make about listings (and do more spot-checking the listings themselves), and I guess this applies to PayPal as well, whether it is an eBay-listed transaction or not, because they are making a cut from the sale too.

Fourth thing is that as long as some selling partners regard 'Mint' condition to mean a different grade than each other, (and GC for example is too lax to refer to 'Mint' in the manner which was reported upthread, IMNSHO), sellers and buyers will occasionally get their signals crossed.

(BTW, I only read 5 1/2 pages of the 15 before posting this.)
~

 

[DavesnothereCA]

....Dare I say, if the seller listed it as "excellent" and disclosed those tiny dents, he still could have sold it for the same price....

~
Quite likely true, and with no gripes and after-hassle.

BTW, another category of item which suffers from this general malady and latitude for misunderstanding in a big way is the online reselling of used cell phones.
~