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As-is / no returns

MultiScaleMale

Gold Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2003
27,228
39,035
Maryland
I've noticed a few sales recently listed as "as-is / no returns". Don't think I've seen that here (TB Classified) previously. Doesn't the "as-is / no returns" disclaimer negate any and all of the descriptions? Personally, I'd just pass on the sale but I hope it's not a new way of turning TB Classifieds into something sketchy like Craigslist. Personally, I'd like to see as-is sales banned. If you can't fully disclose the condition, then don't hide behind "as-is".
 
It could just be sellers that have been burnt by buyers that damage the item to return it. I had that happen with a pedal. Pretty sure they ran it 18V and damaged it, but I can't prove it, so I lost a pedal and paid to ship it both ways. Also, PayPal will almost always side with the buyer even if you put "As-is / no returns" in the listing. My opinion, if you want to do an as-is / no return sale, do it in person. Maybe online isn't for you.
 
Agreed with Gorn. It's become increasingly expected in the age of online retail that everyone selling something online should behave like Amazon or Wal-Mart. If you as the buyer don't like what you get, for any reason, the seller should make it right, up to and including taking the product back and paying a refund.

Well, that expectation is valid when you're dealing with Amazon or Wal-Mart, with tens of millions a day in sales, returns are part of the cost of doing business, and most of the people you actually see working for the store are paid by the hour and have little or no personal investment in the store or its products. In fact, in many cases Amazon doesn't even want "returned" items back, they'll just refund you the money, because the item's value or markup is less than the cost of an RMA to retrieve it.

That expectation is highly invalid when you are dealing with someone selling a few things he or she has personally owned and used, and still values, but is willing to part with for the right price. This is no Wal-Mart customer service associate; what you're buying was purchased with hours out of his or her life. That's literal skin in the game, a personal investment in the item being sold. So imagine the hilarity that ensues when someone conditioned by the big-box retail experience, or in the extreme has learned how to exploit that environment to their advantage (the stereotypical "Karen"), brings those expectations to this more personal selling environment.

Unfortunately, online marketplace sites often adopt the policies of their real-world retail cousins, at least by default; disputes over sold items disproportionately favor the buyer. So, when direct "negotiations" over the condition of a received item start with the Karen asserting their typical social superiority over a retailer, and end predictably with the seller telling the Karen to pound sand, they got what they paid for, the Karen takes her argument to the "manager" - the actual site's customer service department - and to the seller's horror, the site's payment processor reverses the transaction pretty much as a matter of course, because the seller had the site's default return/refund policies in place on the listing.

If you've ever experienced that, if you even continue to use that online market at all, you use every tool you're given to protect yourself, up to and including listing everything "as-is". As-Is status, on most sites, typically overrides buyer protections that the seller is otherwise required to agree to as a condition of listing the item, and has become very popular as a direct response to the abuse of these buyer protections by unscrupulous or just overly-entitled buyers. As-is means no returns, refunds, exchanges, warranties or credits will be extended by the seller nor enforced by the site.

There is one very important exception to the buyer protection overrides, namely that the item must still be "as described". An error or omission that creates a clear disconnect between the item's stated condition and its actual condition is still the seller's responsibility. The marketplace company can do no other, because to refuse to assist the buyer in these situations is to condone fraud, and civil practice lawyers love it when they get a clear shot at deep pockets in fraud cases.

So, "as-is" does not mean "this is junk, walk away". It means "I am telling you up front that if you buy this item, once the money changes hands and the item is delivered, our business is concluded". The site carrying the listing will still hold the seller to an accurate description and depiction of the item being sold.
 
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It also protects against buyer's remorse, whether it be financial or otherwise. I've done a few Ebay transactions where the buyer claimed something was wrong, and of course, they get to send the item back (and I eat the shipping cost). I test the item and it works fine. I even had my tech look at the item in question on one occasion, and he verified nothing was wrong.

My days of flipping gear are pretty much over, but if I can't sell it in person locally or on TB, I'm keeping it.
 
There are those that would want to send it back simply because they don't like it.

Which is better than putting a big gouge in it and then saying it was damaged in shipment in order to return it. If the buyer covers shipping to and from, I'm fine with them backing out due to not liking it. But I don't want to pay $200 round trip shipping so someone can try out a bass they can't find locally. Had that happen with an effects unit and then stopped giving a return policy. I would be fine with the oft-used on Reverb - As Described, no returns. But then that leaves you open to the buyer getting cold feet and damaging the item to get a refund. You have a safety factor on TB because you can see past transactions.
 
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Just about anything I will ever sell, to anyone, for any reason, is "AS IS, NO RETURNS."

I'll tell you everything I know about it, answer all questions, fill you in in nauseating detail. I'll let you test drive it if the circumstances permit. YOUR job is to decide that you want it, and the reasons you want it.

When cash hits my palm, it's yours and I don't want it back. If you change your mind, or decide that it's the wrong color, or doesn't go with your toenail polish, I don't care. It's yours now, not mine.

If I was simply wrong about something and it's non-functional or was damaged in transit, that's another deal, and I'll handle it reasonably and with consideration for both of us. But you bought it, and it's yours.
 
Just about anything I will ever sell, to anyone, for any reason, is "AS IS, NO RETURNS."

I'll tell you everything I know about it, answer all questions, fill you in in nauseating detail. I'll let you test drive it if the circumstances permit. YOUR job is to decide that you want it, and the reasons you want it.

When cash hits my palm, it's yours and I don't want it back. If you change your mind, or decide that it's the wrong color, or doesn't go with your toenail polish, I don't care. It's yours now, not mine.

If I was simply wrong about something and it's non-functional or was damaged in transit, that's another deal, and I'll handle it reasonably and with consideration for both of us. But you bought it, and it's yours.

I got burned a while back. I bought a bass. I kept getting fret buzz. I couldn't set it up. After some time I took it to a pro. Turns out the neck was twisted. (I wound up having a new neck made for the bass ...proprietary neck pocket.)

So, you're saying that if you sell a bass to someone, and it winds up having a defect, you MIGHT "handle it" but you reserve the right not to?
 
Whenever I list something for sale, I describe and shoot pics of every defect I can find so there are no surprises.

One regular seller on Reverb also takes a pick of the front and rear overexposed with huge glare reflecting off of it so you can see every swirl mark, every hairline scratch, stuff that’s normally not seen in normal lighting or normal use.
 
I've never had an issue with sales, trades, and purchases (although I usually try to meet in person). I even had a guy buy a guitar I owned for about 30 years. He told me he understood the attachment I had, and would sell it back if I got cold feet within a week. Far as I know, he is still enjoying it.
 
i put that disclaimer on all my Ebay items ... it just means what it says ... as-is means as it was just described ..!! if folks are to stupid to read that's not gonna be my problem ... my 15 years at 100% positive speaks to my level of honesty , accurate descriptions and solid packing ... don't like it - i don't care - move along

works perfectly well in Real Estate sales ..!!??! Used Cars ... etc ..

no returns ... yeah , i blame the big box stores for creating this mind-set of ordering stuff just to see if you ' like it ' ... please just grow up , do some research and make an adult decision ... this crap is doing nothing but making all the inventory basically used ..!

never do those things in our TB classifieds ... we are smarter than the average bear ..!

and get off my lawn
 
Like someone mentioned above, I use the as-is caveat on eBay to ward off the “changed my mind” situation, i.e. eating extra shipping and perhaps the item not returning to you in the condition you sent it. I thoroughly check anything I’m selling and take all the right pictures needed to accurately depict the item and will rectify anything that is actually wrong in the transaction. But I cross my fingers at each sale because you never know who is on the other end of the sale—but over time, most things seem to work normally.