As-is / no returns

[Rabidhamster]

It could just be sellers that have been burnt by buyers that damage the item to return it. I had that happen with a pedal. Pretty sure they ran it 18V and damaged it, but I can't prove it, so I lost a pedal and paid to ship it both ways. Also, PayPal will almost always side with the buyer even if you put "As-is / no returns" in the listing. My opinion, if you want to do an as-is / no return sale, do it in person. Maybe online isn't for you.

I say if you want the possibility of return go pay for it at a music store. Or pay extra to order online from a music store. Don’t pay “private party” pricing and expect to have returns lol.

I put “as is” in my ads because if any of that bothers you then I didn’t want your business to begin with, I don’t charge enough money. I DO NOT WANT you buying anything I have for sale if you think you need the option to return it. Of course I take excellent photos and describe everything accurately. Saying “no returns as is” doesn’t mean I can lie and say it works when it doesn’t that is fraud. If you can’t deal with no returns then buy in person instead or buy from a music store who’s business model works in the “looky loos“ and “I deserve to use your gear for free until I decide I want to return it” Characters - buying online isn’t for you.

I also wouldn’t trust anyone to pay with PayPal, and I trust PayPal even less.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I say if you want the possibility of return go pay for it at a music store. Or pay extra to order online from a music store. Don’t pay “private party” pricing and expect to have returns lol.

I put “as is” in my ads because if any of that bothers you then I didn’t want your business to begin with, I don’t charge enough money. I DO NOT WANT you buying anything I have for sale if you think you need the option to return it. Of course I take excellent photos and describe everything accurately. Saying “no returns as is” doesn’t mean I can lie and say it works when it doesn’t that is fraud. If you can’t deal with no returns then buy in person instead or buy from a music store who’s business model works in the “looky loos“ and “I deserve to use your gear for free until I decide I want to return it” Characters - buying online isn’t for you.

I also wouldn’t trust anyone to pay with PayPal, and I trust PayPal even less.

Not surprising, but you have zero transaction history here.

 

[Rabidhamster]

Not surprising, but you have zero transaction history here.

The classified section on this site has never been particularly compelling to me, and I refuse to use PayPal. If I found a good deal on something I wanted and the seller would accept credit card through some payment system beside PayPal, then maybe I’d buy something.

If I’m selling, I’ll just post in a more mainstream market place to begin with.


Frankly the idea of returns for a purchase on a random forum classified is ridiculous to me. That’s like unwritten “of course you can’t return it”. Might as well go to a flea market and ask about returns.

 

[projectapollo]

I would be very unlikely to purchase anything that says as-is. In the past year, I've purchased two expensive items that arrived quite different than described from reputable TB sellers who did not intend to misrepresent the items. They just didn't check things thoroughly enough. In both cases the sellers worked on a resolution. If listed as-is, much more likely the buyer would have been left stranded.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The classified section on this site has never been particularly compelling to me, and I refuse to use PayPal. If I found a good deal on something I wanted and the seller would accept credit card through some payment system beside PayPal, then maybe I’d buy something.

If I’m selling, I’ll just post in a more mainstream market place to begin with.


Frankly the idea of returns for a purchase on a random forum classified is ridiculous to me. That’s like unwritten “of course you can’t return it”. Might as well go to a flea market and ask about returns.

At a flea market you can inspect the item before purchase.

 

[projectapollo]

The classified section on this site has never been particularly compelling to me, and I refuse to use PayPal.

In my experience, TB has the best bass-related classifieds on the planet with terrific users who conduct no hassle transactions every day. YMMV. I am NOT a fan of PayPal either, but it's the coin of the realm in these lands. I'd love to see Apple Cash take hold, but I gave up on that.

 

[Rabidhamster]

At a flea market you can inspect the item before purchase.

Sure you can look at it, probably not plug it in. You can inspect photos and description before purchase - if you can’t tell what you need to know from that you shouldn’t buy it.
You actually have far more time and recourse buying online than at a flea market. You can sit and examine the photos, you can charge back your credit card if the ad contained false information.

Do we really trust strangers on the internet to honor a return policy anyway? I don’t. If I’m buying from an individual, no matter what they SAY I don’t believe they will return my money and take their item back.

I don’t buy something used online from a private party wanting to be able to return it, I buy something expecting it to be as described and that all sales are final. If I don’t like it I can resell it myself.

If I wanted to be able to check it out and return it I could pay for that service, but I would rather take the risk and save the money. But I don’t feel it would be fair for me to expect someone to take returns and accept the same amount of money as someone who isn’t into playing guitar shop and just needs to offload some gear

 

[pcake]

i would never buy from an as-is/no returns listing. what happens if the bass/pedal/amp shows up and flat out doesn't work? i neither want to pay return shipping nor be stuck paying for something that doesn't work, so i'd pass.

 

[lomo]

Out of all my transactions on TB, I have only had 2 "unpleasant" experiences, 1 each as a buyer and a seller...neither was a catastrophe, but 1 required some badgering to make a seller do right by me......if I see an ad in which the seller is already hedging in any way, or has had bad feedback that cannot be adequately explained, I walk.

 

[Rabidhamster]

In my experience, TB has the best bass-related classifieds on the planet with terrific users who conduct no hassle transactions every day. YMMV. I am NOT a fan of PayPal either, but it's the coin of the realm in these lands. I'd love to see Apple Cash take hold, but I gave up on that.

That’s the biggest part of it, I simply refuse to use PayPal. They’re awful, what a horrible horrible company. If a website uses PayPal on the back end for credit card processing there’s nothing I can do about it but I’m not using a PayPal account.
If I found something in the classifieds I wanted badly enough to risk sending a money order then maybe.

 

[Rabidhamster]

i would never buy from an as-is/no returns listing. what happens if the bass/pedal/amp shows up and flat out doesn't work? i neither want to pay return shipping nor be stuck paying for something that doesn't work, so i'd pass.

So are we only talking about TalkBass classifieds here? I’m not aware of any other sales platform where “item not as described” is excluded by saying as is no returns. “No returns” means I don’t care whether you like it, as long as I didn’t misdescribe it you're the proud owner. As-is means as described.

if I ordered a “no returns” item on talk bass and it showed up broken when they said it works great, that’s what the credit card chargeback is for. Fraud isn’t the same as not letting someone play with your gear and send it back

 

[pcake]

So are we only talking about TalkBass classifieds here? I’m not aware of any other sales platform where “item not as described” is excluded by saying as is no returns. “No returns” means I don’t care whether you like it, as long as I didn’t misdescribe it you're the proud owner. As-is means as described.

if I ordered a “no returns” item on talk bass and it showed up broken when they said it works great, that’s what the credit card chargeback is for. Fraud isn’t the same as not letting someone play with your gear and send it back

true, sort of. but i don't want to have to charge back - i want to buy from someone who stands by their sale with no hassles, excepting cases of buyer's remorse.

 

[iiipopes]

Tough. Deal with it. The rest of the world is not Wal-Mart or Amazon. UCC 2-316.

Now, if the seller misrepresented, that is a totally different issue.
If it gets damaged in shipping, that is a totally different issue.

The modern world of commerce started in the 17th century with no guarantees. That's life. Only if the seller desires to extend a warranty does it exist, with limited exceptions. The seller can "as-is" and you're stuck with it. Don't forget it.

 

[lfmn16]

I've noticed a few sales recently listed as "as-is / no returns". Don't think I've seen that here (TB Classified) previously. Doesn't the "as-is / no returns" disclaimer negate any and all of the descriptions? Personally, I'd just pass on the sale but I hope it's not a new way of turning TB Classifieds into something sketchy like Craigslist. Personally, I'd like to see as-is sales banned. If you can't fully disclose the condition, then don't hide behind "as-is".

I could be wrong, but most of the time when I see this, there is the caveat, "unless it arrives other than described." I had someone scam me on TB for $150 for a bass I sold them, claiming it was other than described; which it was not. Oddly enough, it was the exact amount it would have cost me to ship the bass back to me and then out to another seller. Quite the coincidence.

Frankly, these days I'd rather take the loss and just sell it to the local music store. I walk away with cash in hand, no muss, no fuss, no scammers, no whiners.

I used to sell books on Amazon, usually I just made a few bucks, sometimes I lost a dollar or two due to shipping. One guy left a bad review because he didn't like how it was packaged. I contacted him and asked if the book was damaged in any way. He said, no, but I didn't package it very well. I told him to go F himself.

 

[Bonafide]

We are all in this market together, some flex room is OK as along it is mutually respectable and well communicated. I think many older or experienced buyer/sellers are excellent overall.

For myself, no 'proven' history as a buyer, no sale. I have had completely acceptable cash offers made on all current gear I have for sale...but any buyer without a clear history here or elsewhere or clear transparency in general, no deal. Only once in my 20 + years of online deals was I taken advantage by a 'high feedback count' community member. I have to say though, in regards to 'full disclosure', TB community is still one of the best. Particularly with 3k-5k gear. In the end, all you have is your reputation and integrity as a human. One last thing - I am amenable to taking something back if it did not live up to the the description. 'Liking it', 'bonding with it' etc, that is something else and solely on the buyer to absorb.

 

[glocke1]

I've noticed a few sales recently listed as "as-is / no returns". Don't think I've seen that here (TB Classified) previously. Doesn't the "as-is / no returns" disclaimer negate any and all of the descriptions? Personally, I'd just pass on the sale but I hope it's not a new way of turning TB Classifieds into something sketchy like Craigslist. Personally, I'd like to see as-is sales banned. If you can't fully disclose the condition, then don't hide behind "as-is".

Anything I'd list would basically have an as-is/no return policy. Im just simply not interested in dealing with someone who got a case of buyers remorse after receiving whatever it is, or dealing with someone whose wife has a hissy fit about bringing more gear into the house.

If someone doesn't like it they don't have to buy.

I would of course, document the condition of whatever it is and accurately describe whatever it is and if there was a problem with the item being damaged in shipment, I'd deal with it.

That said, I've got a few things I need to sell and am extremely wary of selling online anymore as it's proven to be far more hassle than it's worth for the following reasons:


1) Documenting everything from the item being sold, to documenting the packaging process is extremely burdensome.

2) Buyers are often extremely dishonest. Sold a 64 J-Bass refin some years ago, documented everything, took pictures of everything, sold it at a price that was on par with other refins at the time, and after receipt the buyer complained about this and that..these were all things that were pointed out before hand and supported by photos I sent to him.

More recently sold a handgun elsewhere online that was unfired, essentially in new condition without a mark on it. Buyer received it and magically found two very deep scratches on the slide that were just simply not there when I sent it. Sadly I did not photograph that part of the pistol. He even went so far as to say it was damaged in shipment though thats impossible as the shipping containers were intact. My guess is he wanted a deal and put them there himself or dropped it. Moderator of that forum got involved and i ended up losing 1/3 of the sale amount.

3) There are simply very little to no protections in place to protect sellers on most online markets and I've very rarely seen any moderator of a moderated online market side with a seller. Not saying it doesn't happen, Ive just not seen it.

TL/DR version...OI think too many buyers are sketchy tire kickers and it's easier to try and sell locally..

 

[Lowbrow]

Agreed with Gorn. It's become increasingly expected in the age of online retail that everyone selling something online should behave like Amazon or Wal-Mart. If you as the buyer don't like what you get, for any reason, the seller should make it right, up to and including taking the product back and paying a refund.

...
Unfortunately, online marketplace sites often adopt the policies of their real-world retail cousins...

If you've ever experienced that, if you even continue to use that online market at all, you use every tool you're given to protect yourself, up to and including listing everything "as-is". As-Is status, on most sites, typically overrides buyer protections that the seller is otherwise required to agree to as a condition of listing the item, and has become very popular as a direct response to the abuse of these buyer protections by unscrupulous or just overly-entitled buyers. As-is means no returns, refunds, exchanges, warranties or credits will be extended by the seller nor enforced by the site.

...

Sounds like you've got some eBay seller experience.

My wife is an eBay seller, and boy, one thing you learn with deadly predictability is that the buyer who is a pain of the front end (pre-buy) is about 80% more likely than most to have an issue once the item is received.

And indeed, some do damage then want to return - my wife sells clothes, and more than twice a buyer complains about an 'open seam' when they are returning something damaged due to ... sizing miscalculation mishap? Even noting every measurement of a garment does not thwart this.

And the scammers - wow. They will sometimes circumvent PayPal, which takes scamming into account and will often support a seller who can show positive feedback followed by a charge cancellation attempt. They will instead go directly to their credit card to cancel the PayPal charge citing 'unapproved charge,' which is generally insurmountable.

However, I've never had an issue here on TB, but I really try to be warts-and-all in my descriptions of items I want to sell. NEVER do I make something look better than it is!

 

[jnewmark]

I think if you are buying a piece of gear that is used and has a history of owners, then you have to expect an " as is " condition, meaning that, parts may be on the verge of failing, or getting worn out. That is not the seller's fault, imho. Being upfront in an ad by saying " I'm the third owner ", " I'm not the original owner ", etc., should be a caveat to the buyer that things could go wrong down the road. I've had buyers try to get me to take items back, or refund some money because a part failed, a month in to ownership. I think stating in an ad that you are not the original owner and that you are not aware of any issues with the item at this time, no warranties expressed, etc., should be standard language in any want ad selling a used item with history.

 

[Eric Swaim]

If you can't be honest about what your selling. You don't need to be selling. If you have buyers remorse and should have paid your mortgage or rent, you don't need to be buying.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

TL/DR version...OP Thinks too many buyers are sketchy tire kickers and it's easier to try and sell locally..

OP does not think this. OP actually has transaction history on TB.