As-is / no returns

[Mechayoshi]

How do you know if the seller is reputable? If the seller is reputable, it should be listed as "broken truss rod" or whatever. There is no reason for a reputable seller to list anything with "as-is". It's just an attempt to push the responsibility onto the buyer to find out any issues before they buy. If they don't ask the right question, "Hey, I said as-is in the ad, sorry."

Sounds like you almost get it. The honest seller says “broken truss rod. As is.” Sellers often encourage questions being asked. IF there’s a deal breaker regarding the condition and it’s not obvious by image or seller description, ask!

Used isn’t for everyone nor a obligation. So you don’t like what you see psss it up. Yes, PayPal overrides sellers personal policies, but that’s supposed to be for if you are really scammed. NOT feeling ambivalent over a done deal.

Here’s a fun tip to lighten anyone’s day, particular when you have bad photos to work with and minimal descriptions but a set in place return policy (such as on Guitar Centers cite): set your expectations a little low. Don’t expect something broken outright, but be prepared if more set up work is needed or there mild cosmetic issues. That way, when it arrives and doesn’t have much of that if any, you’ll feel so much better. Is this relevant to As Is deals? No, but I thought I’d share.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I personally would never ever buy anything of significant value that I can't return - if I didn't have the option to put hands on it and give it a spin. If you as a seller fear the abuse of tire kickers, well, it's your option to conduct business as you see fit - but you won't be getting any business from me. The issue I have with "as-is", is it gives the seller license to send me pristine pictures of a piece of poopy item and then I have no recourse when a box ox parts lands on my porch.

I get not wanting to fund return shipping and would have no issue having that as part of the deal if I received the item in the condition I expect and find that it just didn't suit me. IF you sense a little bitterness, I'm anchored with a $1500 bass that I bought with a very short return window - and I had to negotiate to get even that week. It was a month after the return window expired that I finally determined the bass wasn't for me. The bass has been difficult to flip (6 string fretless). So now I'll insist on at least a month of return option on an instrument if I ever do a private on-line instrument purchase again.

Pedals and such, I'm fine with a short window - it either works or it doesn't. And yes, I do have a few pedals that I would now return because after time to try to dial it in it didn't quite do the deed, but those will be easy to get my money back on a resale and we're talking about ~$100 level gamble.

Just know that an "as-is" approach to online business will make your buyer's pool a bit shallower.

I don't think I'd sell if someone wanted a month to try it. The buyer should know what they want, but at the same time the seller shouldn't hide behind "as-is / no returns" to sell items that have issues. But then you have the "loophole" where a buyer can just purposely damage the item or claim the truss rod is damaged or whatever and get a return, leaving the seller with a broken instrument and they have to eat shipping costs, which are not insignificant now. The best thing with a TB transaction is that you can check out a buyer and seller's history. Someone isn't going to do 30 transactions over four years so they can scam you out of a bass.

 

[nonconformist]

The "bass community" thing on TB has really changed.

After a 6-7 year hiatus from Talkbass, I did return to what seemed like a much more commercial enterprise in the Classifieds. Numerous "members" flipping large numbers of instruments in an attempt to profit. Legal? Sure. Ethical? Likely. Nice? Not really.

 

[groooooove]

part of why TB is a safe place to buy is that the person selling is a member, and therefore knows more than your average goon off of craigslist.

i've never had an issue here and agree that "as is" is sketchy and would put me off.

I guess it would be fair for them to be banned here. as a frequent seller i'm comfortable with that.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

After a 6-7 year hiatus from Talkbass, I did return to what seemed like a much more commercial enterprise in the Classifieds. Numerous "members" flipping large numbers of instruments in an attempt to profit. Legal? Sure. Ethical? Likely. Nice? Not really.

This guy gets it.
The « nice » and « fun » parts are long gone my friend.
Although some members are %^&$ cool cats and are awesome to deal with. But they are a dying breed unfortunately.

 

[Altitude]

It's all policy anyway, and "policy" is nothing more than a fancy word for "the way I prefer it to go."

If someone sells something and misrepresents it, the buyer will have recourse against the seller regardless of any verbiage the seller waved around during the sales cycle. In a litigation the seller will point out that they told the buyer about the final sale policy, but that will be a weak defense if they are shown to have hoodwinked the seller on the product.

Similarly, if the buyer tries to take advantage of the seller by canceling a completed sale, the seller can simply refuse to refund the money.

All this would require small claims action to resolve though, so maybe better to buy from people you trust. I admit that when I see a seller go out of his or her way to indicate "as-is", I wonder if the seller is trying to cover themself against latent or undisclosed issues with their product.

 

[Corevalay]

It also protects against buyer's remorse, whether it be financial or otherwise.

This is the exact reason that I list items "as-is" and "no returns" when I sell on Reverb. I know my gear is good, and I've described it exact. That still doesn't mean someone won't get an item, not like it as much as they thought, and try to return it. Selling with no returns just avoids that non-sense.

 

[DrMole]

It's all policy anyway, and "policy" is nothing more than a fancy word for "the way I prefer it to go."

If someone sells something and misrepresents it, the buyer will have recourse against the seller regardless of any verbiage the seller waved around during the sales cycle. In a litigation the seller will point out that they told the buyer about the final sale policy, but it will be a weak defense if they are shown to have hoodwinked the seller on the product.

Similarly, if the buyer tries to take advantage of the seller by canceling a completed sale, the seller can simply refuse to refund the money.

All this would require small claims action to resolve though, so maybe better to buy from people you trust. I admit that when I see a seller go out of his or her way to indicate "as-is", I wonder if the seller is trying to cover themself against latent or undisclosed issues with their product.

If the seller goes out of their way to note all the flaws and warts I would not think that at all just because they used the term as-is.
Back in the day when buying anything used it was basically understood. Guess that is why I am not bothered by as-is.

I have never sold anything on Ebay, Reverb or TB and honestly never plan to. I buy and keep.(hoard?)

I hope to one day have musical instruments and equipment displace every other piece of usesless crap that my kids and their mother have acquired over past 15 years.

After having once, long ago been in a situation where I pawned or sold maybe $10k in equipment at sometimes pennies on the dollar- I swore I would one: never be in that position again and two: never sell a piece of gear ever again.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

The "bass community" thing on TB has really changed.

It was never really here though. There are some straight up horror stories coming out of the classifieds.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

It was never really here though. There are some straight up horror stories coming out of the classifieds.

I know.....but as I previously mentioned some people here are awesome.

Others....ishhhhh....not so much

 

[Altitude]

If the seller goes out of their way to note all the flaws and warts I would not think that at all just because they used the term as-is.
Back in the day when buying anything used it was basically understood. Guess that is why I am not bothered by as-is.

I agree - and you can tell the difference. If the seller has, as you say, gone out of his or her way to disclose, I get one sense. Other sellers say next to nothing about their product and still trot out their as-is policy. Those are the ones that make me nervous.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

I know.....but as I previously mentioned some people here are awesome.

Others....ishhhhh....not so much

That is true. Heck, I have sent a pedal to another member just to try out. He ended up sending it back instead of buying it. We aren't all bad. Mind you, he was also a fellow Canadian.

 

[mrcbass]

I don't think I'd sell if someone wanted a month to try it. The buyer should know what they want, but at the same time the seller shouldn't hide behind "as-is / no returns" to sell items that have issues. But then you have the "loophole" where a buyer can just purposely damage the item or claim the truss rod is damaged or whatever and get a return, leaving the seller with a broken instrument and they have to eat shipping costs, which are not insignificant now. The best thing with a TB transaction is that you can check out a buyer and seller's history. Someone isn't going to do 30 transactions over four years so they can scam you out of a bass.

An you have every right to decline my conditions - just saying for me, that will be the condition of that kind of sale for a bass. Like I said, we probably won't be doing business.

I've only purchased one bass on-line from a small one-off music shop and am regretting it because I didn't have time to get past the "is this not fitting because it's different or because it just doesn't fit me" hump - something that just takes time to know. It's quite probable that I'll never buy a bass on-line from a non major retailer again.

It's so unfortunate that people would intentionally damage something in this manner - but I'm sure it's done. I have lost a lot of faith in "people" over the last few month in particular. But it's a risk of doing anonymous business. I personally would never sell in this manner because of these risks. The internet is great - until it's not.

I'm not suggesting that you don't have the rights to place the conditions you need on a deal - they just may eliminate potential legitimate buyers.

 

[DrMole]

I agree - and you can tell the difference. If the seller has, as you say, gone out of his or her way to disclose, I get one sense. Other sellers say next to nothing about their product and still trot out their as-is policy. Those are the ones that make me nervous.

Agree

 

[Lava]

Everything I sell on EB includes clear and accurate descriptions as well as the wording "No Returns" on it but also includes "Please feel free to ask me any questions prior to bidding". Most of what I sell are items that buyers are usually familiar with and know what to look for in the descriptions.
Having said that, there have been a few instances where the buyer really screwed up and bought the wrong thing from me (it happens) and I have done returns solely in the name of good karma .

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

That is true. Heck, I have sent a pedal to another member just to try out. He ended up sending it back instead of buying it. We aren't all bad. Mind you, he was also a fellow Canadian.

Awesome move on your part.
I even gave away a boss bass eq to one member who was down on his luck and needed a clean boost.

He was very thankful and used it with his band. That alone made me smile. I wasn't using it at the moment so....off it went.

Not sure I would do this now......unless i knew for sure who it was.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

I will not buy from as-is listings unless the reason is explicitly stated and I have some recourse should there be issues other than what is mentioned in the description. If the description is blank, canned or nonsensical, I pass. Now, if the seller is a legitimate business and I want the item bad enough, I will call the shop to discuss the item. Most recently the seller disclosed reasons beyond what was listed in the description (like selling selling new below MAP, warranty, etc.) that gave me enough comfort to move forward. But then I placed the order direct instead of through a third party host like Reverb or eBay or get those assurances.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

An you have every right to decline my conditions - just saying for me, that will be the condition of that kind of sale for a bass. Like I said, we probably won't be doing business.

I've only purchased one bass on-line from a small one-off music shop and am regretting it because I didn't have time to get past the "is this not fitting because it's different or because it just doesn't fit me" hump - something that just takes time to know. It's quite probable that I'll never buy a bass on-line from a non major retailer again.

It's so unfortunate that people would intentionally damage something in this manner - but I'm sure it's done. I have lost a lot of faith in "people" over the last few month in particular. But it's a risk of doing anonymous business. I personally would never sell in this manner because of these risks. The internet is great - until it's not.

I'm not suggesting that you don't have the rights to place the conditions you need on a deal - they just may eliminate potential legitimate buyers.

Honestly, I think your expectations are towards the extreme end of the spectrum. Very, very few sellers are going to agree to allow you to play it for a month to see if you bond with the instrument. Are you expecting the seller to pay for shipping if you decide it's not for you? In a coast to coast transaction, that can end up being close to $300 quickly.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

That is true. Heck, I have sent a pedal to another member just to try out. He ended up sending it back instead of buying it. We aren't all bad. Mind you, he was also a fellow Canadian.

With pedals, I'll send it to someone to try. But shipping is only $8 one way with a pedal. Shipment for a bass can be $100 (or much higher) one way, so that makes a "just try it" scenario less than appealing. For lower priced instruments, if you have to refund shipping and pay for return shipping, it's much better to sell to Guitar Center.

 

[lfmn16]

OP does not think this. OP actually has transaction history on TB.

So you think you know what the OP thinks better than a complete stranger???