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ASH vs. ALDER - PART II
- Thread starter -=DanAtkinson=-
- Start date
Did you account for any variation in the humidity of the room between takes? How about barometric pressure? Surely your finger tips had more perspiration on the latter takes. This test is invalid!
Can't tell any tonal difference between any of the tracks, so I couldn't vote. B is a little louder on some notes, probably because of variations in the performance. I was tempted to try to think that was a tone difference, so to be sure I listened to them again.
No difference to my 'highly trained' ears.
As for the fights these things start, it's truly because any 'tonewood' effect is way down in the noise of other factors. So TW advocates have nothing but their faith in the effect to offer in favor of it; if it were a matter of fact, they could just simply point to the different tracks and the discussion would be over.
But they're guessing just like the rest of us - my preference is simply to admit that it's guesswork and abandon my faith in an effect that's really not there....
Once again, nice to have an additional data point!
LS
No difference to my 'highly trained' ears.
As for the fights these things start, it's truly because any 'tonewood' effect is way down in the noise of other factors. So TW advocates have nothing but their faith in the effect to offer in favor of it; if it were a matter of fact, they could just simply point to the different tracks and the discussion would be over.
But they're guessing just like the rest of us - my preference is simply to admit that it's guesswork and abandon my faith in an effect that's really not there....
Once again, nice to have an additional data point!
LS
Keep 'em coming! I'll wait until the west coast people have a chance to contribute before the big reveal.
I "believe" that B=C and there were two basses on Ramble On. Once again, the differences were pretty subtle. Now i know that nothing will be proven here, but I would submit that if significantly more than 50% can correctly sense which recordings are the same configuration then maybe wood does contribute to tone, or at least those two pieces of wood.
I don't have a problem with them as long as people don't actually think they prove anything. The methodology is deeply flawed and there are no real conclusions that can be drawn beyond the "social experiment" aspects.
why is the methodology flawed? how would it be fixed? I teach research methods and while this isn't as thorough as it could be, for a web experiment it really seems pretty good.
In the mix drunken dancing chicks aren't going to notice, maybe some uptight bass player sitting at the bar by himself who has to criticize your gear but 99% of the audience? I just don't see it. Maybe sitting at home in your bedroom with just the bass fine.
Regardless its subtle. No need to beat each other up, rain on his test etc.
Regardless its subtle. No need to beat each other up, rain on his test etc.
Ok, time for the big reveal!
Clip C matches Clip B (They were both Ash)
Ramble On was recorded with a different bass on each verse (Alder in the first verse, Ash in the second)
The votes were VERY close. 56% got the first test right, and 53% got the second test right.
So yet again, definitely not indicative of any significant tone differences. I probably should have listed "I can't tell" as an option, since many people indicated they couldn't hear any difference.
I really think it would take drastic wood pairings (like Maple vs. Mahogany) to produce a real meaningful tone difference. Otherwise it would be impossible to hear the tonal variations in a mix.
Thanks for playing!
P.S. Since the results of this test went narrowly in favor of the "wood matters" crew, I wonder if they will scream about it being "flawed" like they did the last test.
Clip C matches Clip B (They were both Ash)
Ramble On was recorded with a different bass on each verse (Alder in the first verse, Ash in the second)
The votes were VERY close. 56% got the first test right, and 53% got the second test right.
So yet again, definitely not indicative of any significant tone differences. I probably should have listed "I can't tell" as an option, since many people indicated they couldn't hear any difference.
I really think it would take drastic wood pairings (like Maple vs. Mahogany) to produce a real meaningful tone difference. Otherwise it would be impossible to hear the tonal variations in a mix.
Thanks for playing!
P.S. Since the results of this test went narrowly in favor of the "wood matters" crew, I wonder if they will scream about it being "flawed" like they did the last test.
Voted : Clip C matches clip B , and the last one was recorded with two different basses, but maybe he just changed his playing technique in the last one to do the trick (huh ?). EDIT : these were really two basses lol !
Interesting test, Dan..thanks for posting it (them). Out of curiousity, what's you personal take on basswood. Not looking to create a firestorm but just looking for your experience/opinion about it in general terms as it relates to bass.
Okay then "methodologist", enlighten us--give us your insight about these deep, deep flaws.
Well, I reversed ash/alder on both tests - better get off my ash...
Which leads me to wonder if our tester is perhaps engaging in some protocol that thwarts expectations, even if unconsciously? Or maybe even consciously, to play with us?
Heisenberg and all that, even if applying a presumption of innocence...
Believe me, I'm not angry, and the entertainment value of these tests is substantial. Kind of like checking your daily horoscope.
But...perhaps this whole thing is BALDERDASH?
Which leads me to wonder if our tester is perhaps engaging in some protocol that thwarts expectations, even if unconsciously? Or maybe even consciously, to play with us?
Heisenberg and all that, even if applying a presumption of innocence...
Believe me, I'm not angry, and the entertainment value of these tests is substantial. Kind of like checking your daily horoscope.
But...perhaps this whole thing is BALDERDASH?
