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Audio "STEMS" are NOT "Individual Audio Tracks"

#41
ctmullins said:
Imagine if the new generation of TV engineers collectively decided to begin calling these "chrysanthemums".

Would that be beneficial? Would productivity be improved?

(Actually, is it even called "TV" any more? Don't the kids today call it "streaming" or some such?)
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Well that's the thing, linguistic evolution ISN'T a collective decision, it naturally evoolves.

I could reword your sentence to

Imagine if the new generation of clothes wearers collectively decided to begin calling trousers "Pants"

Would that be beneficial? Would anything be improved?

The answer to the questions are both no. Yet that happened and it's now so normal no-one questions it.

And to add, my US brethrin (and to be fair most in the UK) use ironic when they mean something else entirly (see Ms Morrisette for examples)

✌🏽 Peace!
 
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#42
Podgorny said:
The content of a "stem" can be groups of sounds or individual sounds, but the critical part is that they are created by soloing sources in a finished mix, so that the resulting files may be used for live performance tracks and remixes. Multitracks are the parts of a record before they've been mixed.
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Yes, good point. In a live context that uses pre-recorded backing tracks, the tracks are often stem mixes from the original recording.
FullumMusic said:
Oh yeah, i should have added...

When i tell someone to send me stems, i always also specify, "Send me the stems and by stems i mean bounce/export all individual tracks starting from 0:00:00," because i know just asking for stems could mean either all tracks or subgrouped. Sometimes i'll say the percussion can be a stereo stem, or all the background vox can be a stereo stem if they want. But usually if i want things separate or sub-grouped, i specify.

Lol, i think my pet peeve in the whole "send me stems" thing is when someone just sends over audio files that don't all start at 0:00:00, like i'm supposed to guess where in the timeline that sample or section of song that track is supposed to go. Whether we're talking individual tracks or sub-groups, i don't know too many people who think stems are anything other than from 0:00:00. And yet, i still have to specify "from 0:00:00" because apparently not everyone thinks that. 🤷‍♂️ :laugh:
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Yes, agree totally. I should have placed more emphasis on timecode being a necessity to call it a stem in my post. Stems are bits of recorded material that are time coded for syncing. There, now I'm done, lol.
 
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#43
Freight Train said:
Yeah and that's insane. In any discipline, communication is of prime importance. "Linguistic evolution" (LOL!) should not enter into anything that borders on or is science, which music production is a combination of art and science. If new terms need to be added, then of course that's crucial. But for terminology to change midstream just because a field is suddenly inundated with amateurs... no.

Peace on you.
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Coulda shoulda woulda dude! Evolution is gonna evolve!

It's nothing to do with amateurs or a particular field, words change, meanings change, it's been that way for over 150,000 years and it's not gonna stop because one doesn't like it or has an opinion on it.

I bet if you though about it for long enough for would find words in something that borders on or is science that have changed that you 100% agree with.

Even science changes, hence why no-one uses the imperial system anymore..................................... oh wait 🤣 :laugh: 🤣 :laugh:

Peace
 
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#44
ctmullins said:
Imagine if the new generation of TV engineers collectively decided to begin calling these "chrysanthemums".

Would that be beneficial? Would productivity be improved?

(Actually, is it even called "TV" any more? Don't the kids today call it "streaming" or some such?)
Click to expand...
it's dis-analogous in a discussion about the evolution of meaning of an existing industry standard term.
 
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#45
AES/EBU Definition found in Invalid Link Removed

Definitions:
Mix Master definition – A mono, stereo or multi-channel surround mix created during the
mixing process containing all the final desired elements of the multi-track production.
The Master Mix is considered to be the final mix master approved by the artist, producer
and engineer intended for commercial release.
Mix Version definition – Any mono, stereo or multi-channel surround mix created during
the mixing process containing all of the elements of the master mix with any one of the
mixes elements perspective changed. For example, a vocal up of the mix master would
be considered a mix version
Mix Stem definition – Any mono, stereo or multi-channel surround version created
during the mixing process that does NOT contain all of the elements of the Master mix.
Mix Stems contain all relevant audio, processing, volume, panning and effects
associated with that Stemʼs featured elements relevant to the mix master.
Instrumental Track definition -- a complete replica of the mix master containing no
vocals.
No Lead Vocal definition – a replica of the master mix that includes backing vocals but
contains no lead vocal and/or no artist vocals. Often referred to as "TV Track".
Itʼs important to note that the No Lead Vocal mix and Instrumental mix by definition are
considered stems. Since they are currently part of a standard delivery, for the purposes
of this document they are listed in the version category.
Click to expand...
 
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#46
joebingo said:
it's dis-analogous in a discussion about the evolution of meaning of an existing industry standard term.
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Totally agree!

But if the new gen of (anything) decided to call (anything) "chrysanthemums" and it works for them, then it works! It's not a great arguent from angle.

The only agrument against things evolveing and changing is "Thats's not what I'm used to and I don't like it, make it stop"

I used to beat up on my US freinds when I was younger, but realised I was just being a dick! :laugh::cool:

Peace ✌️
 
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#47
GR7G5TER said:
Totally agree!

But if the new gen of (anything) decided to call (anything) "chrysanthemums" and it works for them, then it works! It's not a great arguent from angle.

The only agrument against things evolveing and changing is "Thats's not what I'm used to and I don't like it, make it stop"

I used to beat up on my US freinds when I was younger, but realised I was just being a dick! :laugh::cool:

Peace ✌️
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Can't believe they went and invented a new word to describe themselves. English was sufficient and easily understood.
 
#50
Many comments here have little or no background in studio recording or mixing. And the rest seem to want to get into a language discussion.

From a relatively trusted source in the studio community:

tapeop.com

Is That a Track or a Stem?: Sorting Out Audio Terms

Tape Op is a free magazine exclusively about recording music. Subscribe (yep, for free) at tapeop.com.
tapeop.com tapeop.com

and:

What is Stem Mixing?: And How Can it Help Me?

Tape Op is a free magazine exclusively about recording music. Subscribe (yep, for free) at tapeop.com.
tapeop.com tapeop.com

In the digital era you no longer need to save track count as it is relatively easy to have 32, 64, 128 or more tracks. And it's easy to have final mix from the tracks instead of submixes to save track count. So the blend between stems and tracks is blurred. Many people do use the terms interchangeably, but likely incorrectly.

But it's not really a big deal.

The big deal: Is the performance great? Does it sound good?
 
#52
I am guilty of getting into a language discussion. I feel strongly that communication is difficult enough without meanings of common words changing. Nobody will ever convince me that the definition of "tremolo" is "modulation of pitch".

I am adding “dis-analogous” to my vocabulary though. What does that word mean?
 
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#53
ctmullins said:
I am guilty of getting into a language discussion. I feel strongly that communication is difficult enough without meanings of common words changing. Nobody will ever convince me that the definition of "tremolo" is "modulation of pitch".

I am adding "dis-analogous" to my vocabulary though. What does that word mean?
Click to expand...

A new word that may come in helpful is google, it means to search all available online resources for a phrase term or ward you may want to find out about :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It means not analogous; lacking a similarity or relationship. It's a formal word indicating a lack of resemblance or comparison.

Peace ✌️
 
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#54
I asked Perplexity.ai how this mis-use of "stems" terminology occurred:

The misuse of the term "stems" to refer to individual audio tracks is a common misconception in the music production industry. This confusion likely stems from several factors:
  1. Evolving terminology: The meaning of "stems" has evolved over time, leading to some confusion. Originally, stems referred to "STEreo MasterS," but now they represent grouped submixes of related tracks12.
  2. Simplification of language: Some professionals may use "stems" as a shorthand for individual tracks to simplify communication with clients who are unfamiliar with technical termsInvalid Link Removed.
  3. Widespread misuse: The frequent misuse of the term has led to its incorrect adoption by many in the industry, perpetuating the confusionInvalid Link Removed.
  4. Lack of standardization: The absence of a universally accepted definition has allowed for varied interpretations of the term6.
  5. Changing industry practices: As production techniques evolve, so does the terminology, sometimes leading to misinterpretation of established termsInvalid Link Removed.
It's important to note that true stems are submixes of related tracks, not individual audio files. Sound engineers and producers should strive to use accurate terminology to avoid confusion and maintain professional standards in the industry29.
[H3]Citations:[/H3]
  1. What are Stems in Music? How to Export Stems in 2025
  2. What Are Stems in Music? Difference Between Stems and Tracks
  3. Is That a Track or a Stem?: Sorting Out Audio Terms
  4. https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/stems-and-multitracks.html
  6. https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=363338
  7. What are stems in music production? | Epidemic Sound
  9. Everything You Need to Know about Stems | HOFA-College
  10. Stems & Tracks Are NOT The Same Thing! – Audio University
  11. What are stems in music production? | Native Instruments Blog
  12. Stem (audio) - Wikipedia

Answer from Perplexity: Invalid Link Removed
 
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#57
GR7G5TER said:
Lame emoji response.
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That is about the level of discourse I've come to expect of some on this bass forum.

Can't help it if you don't read tapeop, or can't contribute to the conversation in a meaningful way. You really should get a tapeop subscription if you like recording. Or even if you just like the distinction between stems and tracks. It's free and filled with pro info, interviews and is a great resource.
 

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