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AudioKinesis 112 Cab
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
- Status
One thing worth noting is another dirty secret...very few bass players push their solid state amplifiers terribly hard. We've got a "headroom" addiction, which is probably a good thing -- we'd constantly be blowing drivers if we were really hitting these supposed 1000 watt 4x10s with 1000 watts.
My assumption is that with the knobs at the same position and the amp at half power, the Mb500 for example would be a pretty similar volume through either the Compact or the TC once you eq the compact's mids down to suit ::Bassist::'s smoother tone expectations.
Power compression is worth noting of course, not saying it's not, just that it probably isn't going to play into many situations with someone gigging a Thunderchild or Compact with a micro head.
People tend to stop turning the volume up around when power compression combined with power amp limiting gets you to a point of diminishing returns (or crappy sound).
The reason for this is because the 6's used (alpha or 6nd410) have similar response curves.
Neither of these sound anything like the 3015 full range. Running two cabinets with different midrange and polar response profiles will give unpredictable results. There's a reason Pa guys don't mix and match tops very often and this is it.
Been playing this cab a lot at home. Will most likely have it on a gig next weekend.
I tell you what, this cab has made me rediscover my old LMII. I typically gig an F500 (which replaced my F1 as my main gigging head). With most cabs I own, that slight bit of tightness and upper mid brightness of the F1/F500 just sounds better to me, and the warmer LMII can get a bit flubby when pushed down low.
But man, all the meat in the bass of this little cab, and the LMII just sings with with... warm but still punchy, and very smooth up top. I really like this combination. LIterally set flat... turn it on and play.
Of course, the Puma sounds magical as always at home, but that super deep low end (that really low hi pass filter setting) just worries me a touch, since it looks like that 3012LF is going to pop right through the grill with that head. Of course, that's what that driver is supposed to do, and I guess that's the whole point... a driver that has enough excursion to reproduce those deep bass frequencies. But, it still scares me a bit
LMII it is at this point with this cab!
I tell you what, this cab has made me rediscover my old LMII. I typically gig an F500 (which replaced my F1 as my main gigging head). With most cabs I own, that slight bit of tightness and upper mid brightness of the F1/F500 just sounds better to me, and the warmer LMII can get a bit flubby when pushed down low.
But man, all the meat in the bass of this little cab, and the LMII just sings with with... warm but still punchy, and very smooth up top. I really like this combination. LIterally set flat... turn it on and play.
Of course, the Puma sounds magical as always at home, but that super deep low end (that really low hi pass filter setting) just worries me a touch, since it looks like that 3012LF is going to pop right through the grill with that head. Of course, that's what that driver is supposed to do, and I guess that's the whole point... a driver that has enough excursion to reproduce those deep bass frequencies. But, it still scares me a bit
LMII it is at this point with this cab!
Chef
In Memoriam
I really liked one of the plugs in for use with double bass for just those reasons.
Tightened everything up a bit and made the huge low note fundamentals more even with the rest of the bass.
Tightened everything up a bit and made the huge low note fundamentals more even with the rest of the bass.
I messed around with that, and it did reduce the excursion, but that just didn't speak to me tone-wise. As Chef mentions, cool to have the option though!
I don't know the frequency centers on the Puma but it's definitely possible to correct for the rolloff some. Boost a little around 60-70hz or so.
Plugging the port lowers the tuning frequency, so it increases your headroom below 50hz (the original tuning frequency) but also decreases your sensitivity starting higher up. So a little corrective eq can fix that while potentially giving you a net headroom in the excursion dept.
It's a lot of trial and error of course.
Plugging the port lowers the tuning frequency, so it increases your headroom below 50hz (the original tuning frequency) but also decreases your sensitivity starting higher up. So a little corrective eq can fix that while potentially giving you a net headroom in the excursion dept.
It's a lot of trial and error of course.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
The ports are placed behind the woofer, but diagonally. This geometry was suggested by the engineer who designed the woofer as a way to get a uniform airload on the back of the cone.
The relevant issue is this: If the airload is uneven on the back of the cone, at long excursions the cone can theoretically "rock", causing the voice coil to rub against the sides of the gap that it travels within.
The prototype had both ports behind the horn, resulting in an uneven airload on the cone unless both ports were plugged. The present configuration results in an uneven airload when a single port is plugged, but with both ports either open or closed we're okay.
So if you plug just one port, listen to see if you hear any nasties.
The relevant issue is this: If the airload is uneven on the back of the cone, at long excursions the cone can theoretically "rock", causing the voice coil to rub against the sides of the gap that it travels within.
The prototype had both ports behind the horn, resulting in an uneven airload on the cone unless both ports were plugged. The present configuration results in an uneven airload when a single port is plugged, but with both ports either open or closed we're okay.
So if you plug just one port, listen to see if you hear any nasties.
This has me grinning ear-to-ear, because I'll be pairing the Thunderchild with an LMII I got from another TBer over the summer. Thanks for the perspective, Ken.
Very cool!
Someone buy my Steinie!
that's what's great about you. whereas someone else might have let it go, you really did your research and did it right.
Oh Wow!!!!! Now I want it too.....but 34lbs is too much for me......Duke said he'd work something out for me but he has many things to do before he can get to it.....so in the meantime I bought a Markbass NY121 cab to go with my CMD121P and see what that sounds like though I still prefer a lighter option by pairing my LMII head with one of Duke's next project......
Been playing this cab a lot at home. Will most likely have it on a gig next weekend.
I tell you what, this cab has made me rediscover my old LMII. I typically gig an F500 (which replaced my F1 as my main gigging head). With most cabs I own, that slight bit of tightness and upper mid brightness of the F1/F500 just sounds better to me, and the warmer LMII can get a bit flubby when pushed down low.
But man, all the meat in the bass of this little cab, and the LMII just sings with with... warm but still punchy, and very smooth up top. I really like this combination. LIterally set flat... turn it on and play.
Of course, the Puma sounds magical as always at home, but that super deep low end (that really low hi pass filter setting) just worries me a touch, since it looks like that 3012LF is going to pop right through the grill with that head. Of course, that's what that driver is supposed to do, and I guess that's the whole point... a driver that has enough excursion to reproduce those deep bass frequencies. But, it still scares me a bit
LMII it is at this point with this cab!
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Thank you, Jimmy.
Loopee, I appreciate your enthusiasm... but unfortunately the tone will inevitably be compromised in the twenty-something pounder because I won't have the luxury of using a fancy (heavy) crossover. My crossover weighs about as much as most neo 12's.
Loopee, I appreciate your enthusiasm... but unfortunately the tone will inevitably be compromised in the twenty-something pounder because I won't have the luxury of using a fancy (heavy) crossover. My crossover weighs about as much as most neo 12's.
Yeah, I know......laws of physics.....but it'll probably sound better than my Schroe? Not putting Schroedder down but I prefer fat, warm tones
Even 30lbs would work if we must.....
Even 30lbs would work if we must.....
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Just going to 3/8" birch should get you around 4lbs, maybe 5. Stick with the heavy crossover
It will take more than that. Birch is denser than the 1/2" ply I use (43 pounds per cubic foot vs 35 pounds per cubic foot); my calculations predict a savings of only 1.2 pounds from switching to 3/8" birch.
Ahh, I thought you used birch for some reason. Sorry!
I've used 3/8" arauco style ply before and it's not too bad to work with. That should net you several pounds. There's a lot of other stuff you could do obviously but that's a simple one.
I think we've been over a lot of this and I'm just rehashing though =)
Well, I received my Thunderchild last week. Much to my surprise, it just didn't do it for me. I found it's voicing to be lower than that which I get from an EQ'd Acme B2. Try as I might, I could not get the cab to open up in the same way. The net effect of this for me was a reduction in air and overtone in the upper mids that I enjoy. I have no idea if what I felt was missing is actually a pleasing distortion from a cone driver, and thus less 'accurate' ... couldn't say.
I am concerned that what I was really reacting to was not the horn, but the mid info that was coming from the 12 .. just guessing though, and I hope I am wrong there (wouldn't bode well for me with the new Acme if that is indeed the case) , but just not enough complexity in the voice there for me.
Now, that's not to say that the cab sounded bad, not at all. It really does take that 'honk' out of the horn, and the bass was great (although I never even broke that in, as the mids/upper mids weren't to my liking, and I didn't suspect that would change much. The build quality is top notch .. bullet proof in fact, and very light weight.
I have since moved it on to a happy owner who probably thinks I am nuts for selling ;>) ....
EDIT: Amplification used ... MB F500 and Crest CA-9 with a Millennia Origin pre.
I am concerned that what I was really reacting to was not the horn, but the mid info that was coming from the 12 .. just guessing though, and I hope I am wrong there (wouldn't bode well for me with the new Acme if that is indeed the case) , but just not enough complexity in the voice there for me.
Now, that's not to say that the cab sounded bad, not at all. It really does take that 'honk' out of the horn, and the bass was great (although I never even broke that in, as the mids/upper mids weren't to my liking, and I didn't suspect that would change much. The build quality is top notch .. bullet proof in fact, and very light weight.
I have since moved it on to a happy owner who probably thinks I am nuts for selling ;>) ....
EDIT: Amplification used ... MB F500 and Crest CA-9 with a Millennia Origin pre.
Cool to hear your review, Mothra. Thanks for posting. So are you returning to your Acme B2, or holding out for the new Acme neo?
Chef
In Memoriam
This is not directed at the Thunderchild, nor any of these newish, three/two-way designs, specifically...
But, I'm not at all surprised to hear that there are folks that don't like them.
The "studio reference" sound is not for all people.
What you want to sound like is a very personal deal, and therefore, really, "no things are for all people."
I'm sure there's a ton of people on the Double Bass boards who curl into the fetal position when I say I use a Mesa Walkabout for DB...and really, I've never found a high quality 410 like the UL410, or AE410 lacking, for me...
I liked the Thunderchild prototype I had, but I'm fairly well used to the three-way thing via some other products.
But, I'm not at all surprised to hear that there are folks that don't like them.
The "studio reference" sound is not for all people.
What you want to sound like is a very personal deal, and therefore, really, "no things are for all people."
I'm sure there's a ton of people on the Double Bass boards who curl into the fetal position when I say I use a Mesa Walkabout for DB...and really, I've never found a high quality 410 like the UL410, or AE410 lacking, for me...
I liked the Thunderchild prototype I had, but I'm fairly well used to the three-way thing via some other products.
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