Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
AudioKinesis 112 Cab
- Thread starter KJung
- Start date
- Status
fair enough. i wasn't horribly far off 
his 212 cab comes pretty close to the air movement of an 810. duke says about like a 710. no idea what the sensitivity is, but i don't recall cranking my lmii any more than when i used it with an 810 to achieve about the same volume i normally got with the 810.
his 212 cab comes pretty close to the air movement of an 810. duke says about like a 710. no idea what the sensitivity is, but i don't recall cranking my lmii any more than when i used it with an 810 to achieve about the same volume i normally got with the 810.fair enough. i wasn't horribly far off
Sensitivity is quite low, I assume due to all that xmax and low end extension, etc. However, that's why he made it a 4ohm cab, since that particular driver can actually handle the typical 500 watts of most micro amps (as long as they have a nicely voiced hi pass to control the deep low end like the Markbass heads and Genz heads, etc.).
However, comparing my Thunderchild at 4ohms to my 8ohm TC RS210 (as an example), at the same 'master knob' setting, the 210 is a LOT louder. However, it is also a lot more voiced to the mids and of course will start to fold down low relative to the Thunderchild as I really crank the master (i.e., max SPL and low end is much better on the Thunderchild).
fair enough. i wasn't horribly far off
If it's using 3012LFs, then the sensitivity is about 96.5db "calculated" if I recall correctly, maybe 96db. The winisd parameter calculated sensitivity seems to be the best number to use, since it's consistent at least. If you wanted to compare it to your typical bass cab rather than the Thunderchild, Ampeg, or Barefaced numbers, I'd use 98db as the number.
The cab can take a sustained 1000 watts or so (based on the rough crossover frequency of the horn), so compared with about about 400-500 watts for your average 8x10. Your average 8x10's computed sensitivity will be about 101db.
So it seems like a good estimate. After power compression, at max spl, Duke's 212 is probably around 2db or so behind an 8x10 in computed sensitivity.
I don't know how he has the midrange designed (e.g. is it flat, or not? How much headroom does the horn have for eq?) so I can't say what the mids are going to sound like.
8x10s can get up to 110db or even more in the upper mids, so if that's a valuable volume to you (to me it is worthless) it will be a lot louder most lkely.
It's probable that a fairer test would be if you boosted 3-6db of upper mids with the Thunderchild, and run the ( Edit: Rs210 ) flat.
Yep, but if the Thunderchild can take a 6db upper mid boost and still not run out of gas before the Rs210 (which I think is probable, but I can't say for sure) then you know which cab is the real boss in terms of sensitivity. Power demands are so low up top that EQ'ing upper mids in is a lot cheaper in terms of power than EQ'ing lower bass in.
Similarly, if you're like me and you have to cut mids out of your standard 4x10 to get a sound you like, that extra midrange volume becomes unimportant really fast.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
My calculations were based on comparing the displacement (cone area x linear excursion) of seven 10" drivers, probably the B102 or S2010, versus a pair of 3012LFs.
I really don't know anything about wedge monitors, but I'm under the impression that the vertical height should be kept to a minimum. In that case, I'd be uncomfortable using that horn on its side; I think a coaxial would be a better format for a wedge monitor.
I'm under the impression that wedge monitors tend to emphasize the midrange a lot, and that pleasing sound quality is a low priority, but I could be mistaken. If you can give a quick "wedge monitors for dummies" synopsis, I would very much appreciate it.
listening to your prototype and my old svt 810 side by side on a soundcheck, i'd say that's very accurate.
Does the Thunderchild with an lmIII would achieve the same kind of tone I hear through headphones ?
The sound I prefer with my bass seems to be through a flat preamp and headphones.
When I hear my bass through cabinets (gs112, mesa ph210, ph115, gs410), even with a clean preamp (Demeter vtb-201s), I don't like the hi-mid and hi it produces compared to the full sound through headphones.
Thanks,
The sound I prefer with my bass seems to be through a flat preamp and headphones.
When I hear my bass through cabinets (gs112, mesa ph210, ph115, gs410), even with a clean preamp (Demeter vtb-201s), I don't like the hi-mid and hi it produces compared to the full sound through headphones.
Thanks,
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Bonjour Slaymus. Oui je parle Francais... un petit peut, quand-meme.
If you listen to Kjung's YouTube clips through good headphones, that will give you a pretty good idea of what it sounds like live. Now a direct feed into a flat preamp and thence to good headphones will have more low-level detail and clarity; some of that is lost when going to drivers rugged enough for live music, as compared with the ultralight, low-power diaphragms in headphones. I could come a bit closer, but would have to use more expensive drivers and components. Tradeoffs, you know. Toujours les tradeoffs.
If you listen to Kjung's YouTube clips through good headphones, that will give you a pretty good idea of what it sounds like live. Now a direct feed into a flat preamp and thence to good headphones will have more low-level detail and clarity; some of that is lost when going to drivers rugged enough for live music, as compared with the ultralight, low-power diaphragms in headphones. I could come a bit closer, but would have to use more expensive drivers and components. Tradeoffs, you know. Toujours les tradeoffs.
Ken, hear what you are saying about the Schro low end. But, I am honestly still trying to work through what that means. I am finding that the low end pillow that sounds so full solo (eg my NV610, which I adore) can cause issues with stage mix/mic bleed; and that the Schro's, though low end attenuated, can be useful for that very reason in the live mix.
Still interested in one of Duke's cabs down the road for small Jazz settings, but not convinced of the non-utility of that "ugly" Schro voicing.
PS Guess its a good thing that after all these years and gigs there are still puzzles to solve.
+1 Not better or worse in an absolute sense. There is very little 'bloom and woof' in the low end of the Thunderchild. It's not like it is tuned to 32 hz or something like the Acme... it is just a very nice 'real' low end that results in no compression or attenuation when playing on the B string. Of course, you still aren't hearing the fundamental, but like you mention, that can get in the way.
It has plenty of bottom, but it is 'good, even, bass guitar bottom', not PA Sub bottom, if that makes any sense.
Just got my cab! Some initial thoughts:
Excellent pack job.
Say hello!
The gigging rig! This thing is easily louder, clearer, and has more "punch" than that Eden 2x10 behind it, and might even give the 2x12 a run for its money volume-wise.
Some bass boost to give that 12" woofer a workout.
You'd never know this was a 2-way cab from the way it sounds.
Heavy-duty, solid switches on the back. One turns the horn/compression driver off altogether, the other gradually rolls off treble response around 3.5k for a more "vintagey" response. Sounds great with and without the rolloff engaged. None of the "fizz" you get with a piezo tweeter here!
I love it!
So far, I've only had it about as loud as I can get away with in my basement apartment, which is still pretty loud. Excellent clarity and depth, and it sounds much "bigger" than it is. There's no compression, farting, or any indication that it's working hard, even when slapping the low E or playing down on the low B. With a little parametric EQ love from the Eden, it's great-sounding for electric cello too.
Even standing to the side, you hear the mids and highs clearly, which you don't usually get with guitar or bass cabs. And, at 34 lbs with a well-placed handle it's very subway-capable.
Duke was a stand-up guy to deal with. Very up-front, honest, and down to earth, and you can tell he loves talking about and building speaker cabs. Fit and finish is excellent and all the little details like the recessed handles, airtight Speakon+1/4" combo jacks and bombproof switches are well-thought-out and executed.
This is my first experience with this sort of modern cab design, and I'm extremely impressed. It will be getting a trial by fire at a friend's halloween party tomorrow night!
Excellent pack job.
Say hello!
The gigging rig! This thing is easily louder, clearer, and has more "punch" than that Eden 2x10 behind it, and might even give the 2x12 a run for its money volume-wise.
Some bass boost to give that 12" woofer a workout.
You'd never know this was a 2-way cab from the way it sounds.
Heavy-duty, solid switches on the back. One turns the horn/compression driver off altogether, the other gradually rolls off treble response around 3.5k for a more "vintagey" response. Sounds great with and without the rolloff engaged. None of the "fizz" you get with a piezo tweeter here!
I love it!
So far, I've only had it about as loud as I can get away with in my basement apartment, which is still pretty loud. Excellent clarity and depth, and it sounds much "bigger" than it is. There's no compression, farting, or any indication that it's working hard, even when slapping the low E or playing down on the low B. With a little parametric EQ love from the Eden, it's great-sounding for electric cello too.
Even standing to the side, you hear the mids and highs clearly, which you don't usually get with guitar or bass cabs. And, at 34 lbs with a well-placed handle it's very subway-capable.
Duke was a stand-up guy to deal with. Very up-front, honest, and down to earth, and you can tell he loves talking about and building speaker cabs. Fit and finish is excellent and all the little details like the recessed handles, airtight Speakon+1/4" combo jacks and bombproof switches are well-thought-out and executed.
This is my first experience with this sort of modern cab design, and I'm extremely impressed. It will be getting a trial by fire at a friend's halloween party tomorrow night!
Chef
In Memoriam
- Status
