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AudioKinesis 112 Cab

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#522
KJung said:
...for those who are in the 'lone wolf freelance large city world', this cab is a blessing.:bassist:
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Thats me... you are making it hard for me to resist this thing.

How is the vertical dispersion of the mids with this cab?
I ask because I'm often squeezed in right in front of my cab on stage with a large band/dense mix and the mids and highs disappear. If I tilt the cab back enough to hear them then I feel like I'm loosing bass and shooting mids and highs over everyone else's head. A lot of horns seem to focus on spreading the sound horizontally rather than vertically.
 
#523
rpsands said:
22h x 14w x 14d

vs

24h x 16.5w x 15.25d

The weight difference should be about 4lbs worth of wood or in that ballpark.

I think the fEarful probably looks a lot bigger. I'm not sure why but shelf ports always make things look bigger to me.
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That is a bigger difference than you would think. When you then combine the lower tuning, lower SPL, 8ohm impedance, the 12/6 really is going to appeal to a different player than the 'small amp freelance friendly' Thunder Child, which given its tuning, impedance, weight, size and most importantly, its voicing, really works perfectly for the typical casual gigs (sometimes requiring doubling) that many players like myself do.
 
#524
basss said:
Thats me... you are making it hard for me to resist this thing.

How is the vertical dispersion of the mids with this cab?
I ask because I'm often squeezed in right in front of my cab on stage with a large band/dense mix and the mids and highs disappear. If I tilt the cab back enough to hear them then I feel like I'm loosing bass and shooting mids and highs over everyone else's head. A lot of horns seem to focus on spreading the sound horizontally rather than vertically.
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+1... I kind of revised my post, since I get so darn wordy!!!

I find the near field sound of this cab to be very even above, to the side and in front of the cab. I had the luxury Saturday of standing right on top of it at the beginning of the night, and then cruising around a bit later in the evening as the band cranked up. It was very even sounding. That big horn really is a strange sort of 'visual trick', in that this cab is much more warm and organic than a typical two way cab with a little bitty tweeter. It kind of sits right between the top end of most of the 12/6's I've played, and a high quality 'traditional' two way cab like the Bergantino HT112ER, which has a bit more of sizzle way up top, but not nearly the smooth transition from the driver through the upper mids to lower treble.

Really quite amazing. Probably not the best cab for Marcus Miller slapping, but it excels at virtually everyting else, and has plenty of 'life' up top, just none of the 'metalic' sort of upper treble that many two way cabs have (even though it LOOKS like it would be overwhelmingly 'metalic' up top with that monster horn!.
 
#525
fEarful was designed around the fact that it had to use a production 8-ohm driver, and my desire for something that could take a full-scale assault across the audible spectrum, even for tunings below a B string and when there is no PA or mnonitor support. I wasn't designing for ultimate compactness, nor was I targeting the micro heads, many (most?) of which still seem to be short of the kind of performance I desire.

Duke wisely sought the niche that does not especially interest me. This does not make me clueless though one person in particular over the past year sure has inferred that an awful lot. Yet the fEarful 12/6 is an incredible cab for people who want something pretty small and pretty light that can deal out big SPL without sacrificing either girth or midrange performance.

I wish Duke tons of sales though I hate that so much of the talk seems to come at my expense. I'm trying to keep thinking of him as a friend in spite of all the crap that's been dealt in my direction over the past year or more.
 
#526
greenboy said:
fEarful was designed around the fact that it had to use a production 8-ohm driver, and my desire for something that could take a full-scale assault across the audible spectrum, even for tunings below a B string and when there is no PA or mnonitor support. I wasn't designing for ultimate compactness, nor was I targeting the micro heads, many (most?) of which still seem to be short of the kind of performance I desire.

Duke wisely sought the niche that does not especially interest me. This does not make me clueless though one person in particular over the past year sure has inferred that an awful lot. Yet the fEarful 12/6 is an incredible cab for people who want something pretty small and pretty light that can deal out big SPL without sacrificing either girth or midrange performance.

I wish Duke tons of sales though I hate that so much of the talk seems to come at my expense. I'm trying to keep thinking of him as a friend in spite of all the crap that's been dealt in my direction over the past year or more.
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+1 The 12/6 is a very different cab that will appeal to IMO a different user, and sounds wonderful in its own way. I don't even think the two designs will compete.
 
#528
I think's it's great to have both choices, and I don't see them as competing, since they are enough different from each other; to me at least.

Greenboy, you've really led the way on much of this and I personally thank you for it.
 
#530
For where I'm at right now (city with public transportation, necessitating a rig as small and light as possible) the Thunderchild is for me, although without side handles (which I think are an optional extra) it can be a bit much to haul around on long walks for a smaller guy like me.

I do want to build a 15/6 (possibly even with a 15/sub) with a big power amp someday though. I don't understand why there has to be "one or the other" between the TC and the fEarfuls; they're targeted at very different applications. The fEarful appears to be a "as loud as you need it while maintaining reasonable size/weight and drawing big power" while the TC is designed to be a one-cab solution that maximizes what you can pull from a modern micro head. It's not like one obviates the other.

It sucks that there are people who don't realize this, and it's even more frustrating that you are feeling hate directed at yourself, Greenboy, since that's the last thing you should have to deal with.
 
#531
IntrepidCellist said:
For where I'm at right now (city with public transportation, necessitating a rig as small and light as possible) the Thunderchild is for me, although without side handles (which I think are an optional extra) it can be a bit much to haul around on long walks for a smaller guy like me.

I do want to build a 15/6 (possibly even with a 15/sub) with a big power amp someday though. I don't understand why there has to be "one or the other" between the TC and the fEarfuls; they're targeted at very different applications. The fEarful appears to be a "as loud as you need it while maintaining reasonable size/weight and drawing big power" while the TC is designed to be a one-cab solution that maximizes what you can pull from a modern micro head. It's not like one obviates the other.

It sucks that there are people who don't realize this, and it's even more frustrating that you are feeling hate directed at yourself, Greenboy, since that's the last thing you should have to deal with.
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The Kart-a-Bag Concorde III will be your very good friend in your situation. It is a super duty luggage cart that has stair walker rails, and attached bungee tie downs. You can strap the cab, small head and stand on the cart, bass on your back, and you can walk for blocks. The stair walkers allow you to easily go over curbs and up and down four or five stairs with ease. The platform is only around 10" deep, but it works well with the cab and the bungee tie downs.

This line of carts is so far above the cheapo stuff it isn't even funny, and folds up to smaller than the cover once you get on the gig. Not cheap, but worth every penny. I have the Super 600 for 212 size cabs, and that works great also.

FYI!
 
#532
IMHO, any cab that features the 3012LF, no matter the design origin, is going to be compared to other cabs that use the same driver, just the nature of the beast. The ultimate goal, it seems to me, is to be heard the best way possible, no matter what the gig. These two cabs, by far, seem to be the best solution so far. Both designers should feel proud.
 
#533
First of all, let me say that I view the fearful solution as a DIY solution and as a guy who barely passed woodshop in Junior High, it's not for me unless I can hire someone else to do the construction.

Like Lee pointed out, there are ergonomic as well as weight/volume factors at play. I took the liberty of grabbing the Thunderchild by the single handle and yes it is doable but like someone else pointed out, I wouldn't want it to be a long walk from the car. When Mal lifted his fearful into the room, he didn't seem to exerting a huge amount of effort but with handles on the side, it seemed a comfortable trip with the cabinet to his chest.

And again, they were TOTALLY different animals tonewise. If I was trying to do Rock, I'd prefer the fearFul. But I'm trying to push a Mouse in a medium size room with a Real Book combo with a heavy handed drummer. I'm thinking the Thunderchild might be more of what I'm looking for. Since I didn't care for the horn all the way up, thinking I might just want a straight 12. It seems a waste to get a cab that's almost half horn when you really don't need it.
 
#534
Hey fish slapper,

Don't discount the Thunderchild horn. It's not just about extending frequency response - it's about better off-axis response. People continue to misunderstand, misconstrue, or discount a design principle both Duke and I, and Alex Claber of Barefaced consider primary.

The benefits of this are that it not only takes the midrange-and-up across a wider soundstage - it also fills a room/environment in such a way that it is less likely to suffer from boominess or muddiness... summing of the response both direct and reflected is more likely to be like the direct non-reflected sound, and it's going to be less "reactant" in bad sound environments. Which as some of us frequently experience, a real problem.
 
#535
KJung said:
Hey guys,

I put the Thunder Child through its paces this weekend with my LM2 and my Alleva-Coppolo LM5 (ash/maple 70's style J bass). Seven piece band, large room, moderate volume gig (loud, but not stupid... no PA support... mix of pop, light rock, pop funk and some swing.. typical casual gig).

The cab performed beyond my expectations... full, deep low end, nicely articulate, no compression (even when slapped at moderately high volume), REAL bass response. The top end is a bit more organic than the two way cabs I typically use, so not as much aggressive sizzle, but for most, that isn't a big deal.

This cab will EASILY keep up with even the best 210 cab, with more real, full low end, smaller, size and lighter weight, and will come close to the performace level of many 2 x 112 stacks.

It's the first time in many, many years I didn't even use a cart.... bass on my back, LMII and all cables in the little amp bag across my shoulder, cab in one hand, bass stand in the other. NICE! I beat both singers out of the venue:D

Very impressive. It does take some power... I had the LMII cranked higher than I've ever run it, even on hugely, massively loud gigs with a 410. However, neither the cab nor the head flinched...full, deep, open, even bass.

On Saturday afternoon, I met with a DBer buddy of mine, and it sounded GREAT with that also (he uses a fancy clip on mic and a Walter Woods). Extremely transparent. Nice!

This one is a massive keeper!:bassist:


Edit: The F500/F1 will even be louder and punchier, and the slightly brighter response of those amps will be great for the pop stuff. I ran the LMII pretty much flat, but with a slight boost to the upper mids to bring out a little more of that gank and brightness of that 70's style instrument. However, this cab screams for a P Bass or a nice alder/RW J with nickels!
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Impressive!!!
 
#536
KJung said:
The Kart-a-Bag Concorde III will be your very good friend in your situation. It is a super duty luggage cart that has stair walker rails, and attached bungee tie downs. You can strap the cab, small head and stand on the cart, bass on your back, and you can walk for blocks. The stair walkers allow you to easily go over curbs and up and down four or five stairs with ease. The platform is only around 10" deep, but it works well with the cab and the bungee tie downs.

This line of carts is so far about the cheapo stuff it isn't even funny, and folds up to smaller than the cover once you get on the gig. Not cheap, but worth every penny. I have the Super 600 for 212 size cabs, and that works great also.

FYI!
Click to expand...

It's funny you mention that! I met a bass player on the subway last night who was using that exact cart to tote around an Acoustic Image head and Epifani 110. Said he was on his second of those carts in 20 years, and that the first had lasted from the mid-90s till two or three years ago. I will definitely have to snag one.

On a side note, I wonder if he happens to be on here... he seemed like a nice guy, and I wouldn't mind some lessons or catching a gig or two of his, but I have no way to contact him with just a first name and the general street he lives on!
 
#538
I think it's quite a tribute to greenboy and his designs that the best a manufacturer could do, with custom woofers and fancy-@$$ measuring and design hardware and software, is to produce something that's... different. Not better; in some ways subject to stompage by said greenboy designs; maybe more suitable for some applications but not for others; perhaps preferred by some but not by others... in a word, different.

Without greenboy, there would have been no Thunderchild. He paved the way, showing bass players that better off-axis response is worth pursuing, and giving them a way to do so through his DIY fEarfuls, or specifying a nEarful from Low Down Sound (credit also to Alex Claber of Barefaced for his cutting edge, off-axis-friendly designs). And greenboy showed me that bass players care enough about getting better off-axis sound that they'd even build their own cabs if they had to. Now I don't want to essentially duplicate the performance of an existing design, so I tried to find a different niche for my own commercial effort. Greenboy and I communicated enough during the development of my cab that his fingerprints are all over it, though it's probably not obvious.

Greenboy sets the bar very high, for me and any other boutique manufacturer. The best I could do is to offer something "different".
 
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