AudioKinesis 1x12 Cab Part Two

[JxBass]

Loopee, I'd be surprised if you couldn't warm those Tots up with some EQ. When I did my A/B of my TC112 against my LDS 12/6 I found the 12/6 a bit fuller down low (makes sense, bigger box). But after a bit of experimenting you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I no longer own the 12/6

I also owned those MBs and they are indeed quite nice (hate those piezos). It may take a little getting used to but you can't beat the clear, full range sound of Duke's cabs, IMO.

 

[KJung]

Well I was a/b'ing them on flat settings first and all knobs set the same to really see what was the difference between the cabs.....with those settings I preferred the MB warmth but the Tots sounded fantastic just not as warm but the voicing was way nicer than the MB's....so next a/b'ing I'll be twiddling the knobs to see if I can bring the Tots warmer (low mids I guess) and yes I did not use the filter knobs today but I will next time....I might just get a Streamliner and see how warmer that little amp is (but keep the LMII, I just love that little head), one thing I did notice was that I preferred the tone without effects, I might get a Diamond Comp to fatten the sound a little and keep my Xotic BB on the board and take my DHA off the board and keep it for recording or the few times I might use FOH without an amp (it's a nice pedal) but I had it set for pretty much the same tone I was getting without it and it's big and heavy so I might just put a Tone Hammer or my BDDI in it's place or maybe my Exciter since it has a DI also.......so I'm not saying I don't like my Tots, not at all, I just need to adjust to them as the size and weight will make it less painful to keep gigging and playing

I was using an active/passive with rounds and then switched to a passive with flats, the volume was around 9.....and yes, I didn't need a tweet, got all the highs I needed even with the passive and I even turned the treble down a little at one point, will try a bit more of that next time too and see if that helps get a bit more warmth, maybe the drivers only need some breaking in after all......I usually buy used and broken in amps and cabs so I'm not used to new ones......

Most of the time, this issue is due to the upper mid peak of many neo's (especially HO drivers... not sure what Duke used here). It is not a treble issue at all. With your Markbass head, luckily, you have a good upper mid control. Cut those upper mids around 1K (800hz to 2K or so, to taste) and those drivers will smooth right out.

Duke controls that 'gank' area nicely with his amazing crossover in the TC112. However, in a one way cab, there it must be controlled with EQ.

 

[Lee Barker]

I'm thinking about attaching my GB 6.0 head (still removable) to my TC and then adding an Extendo-Handle. Nice package, but it lifts the box off the floor a couple inches. What are your thoughts about this spine-selfish plan?

 

[Chef]

Brief thoughts:
Sadowsky MV5/Lakland P5> GK MB-Fusion>TC112AF.

The band uses two Bose Stick/sub units: we're not massive loud, but, "just regular loud."
Only vocals and piano thru the sticks. Guitar player is strat/old fender twin; capable of plenty loud. Drummer tends to heavy handed; but can play dynamically when browbeaten.

This was in a big banquet hall, all hard floors, walls, high ceilings, probably 250 people or so. I brought my 2xGK Neo112-II as backup if the TC112AF couldn't get it. Never even got them out of the car...the TC sound checked nicely, so I figured I'd run it for first set and see how she held her ground.

The TC112AF totally got it.
It's not an extremely deep box, but you can pistol whip it and it doesn't care.
My Sadowsky sounded glorious thru it, and it was plenty loud enough, with eq flat at both the bass and amp, input gain at about 10 clock, master at about noon.

It doesn't convey "heft/girth/weight" the way my LDS or Epi UL cabs do, but, it's not lacking low end either. Bass sure didn't get boomy as it could have in such a room. Nice and even throughout the register, and the highs are as present as you want them in a warm and pleasing way as opposed to an in your face/bright/modern way. The character of the ash/maple Sadowsky with fresh blue steels on it was clear and present. The P bass worked just as well.

While it doesn't complain if you try to eq more low end in, you're not really gonna change the character of the box with it either. If you need "dub," this probably isn't your thing. However, the way it sits in the mix and fills a room is beautiful.

Pretty impressive.
A little 112 I can really gig with? Really?

Whodathunkit.

 

[John D Harris]

Brief thoughts:
Sadowsky MV5/Lakland P5> GK MB-Fusion>TC112AF.

The band uses two Bose Stick/sub units: we're not massive loud, but, "just regular loud."
Only vocals and piano thru the sticks. Guitar player is strat/old fender twin; capable of plenty loud. Drummer tends to heavy handed; but can play dynamically when browbeaten.

This was in a big banquet hall, all hard floors, walls, high ceilings, probably 250 people or so. I brought my 2xGK Neo112-II as backup if the TC112AF couldn't get it.

The TC112AF totally got it.
It's not an extremely deep box, but you can pistol whip it and it doesn't care.
My Sadowsky sounded glorious thru it, and it was plenty loud enough, with eq flat at both the bass and amp, input gain at about 10 clock, master at about noon.

It doesn't convey "heft/girth/weight" the way my LDS or Epi UL cabs do, but, it's not lacking low end either. Bass sure didn't get boomy as it could have in such a room. Nice and even throughout the register, and the highs are as present as you want them in a warm and pleasing way as opposed to an in your face/bright/modern way. The character of the ash/maple Sadowsky with fresh blue steels on it was clear and present.

Pretty impressive.
A little 112 I can really gig with? Really?

Whodathunkit.

Very cool!

Congrats!

 

[lookiel]

Thanks for the nice review Chef!
I can't wait to receive mine!

 

[KJung]

Cool Chef!

And yes, it isn't about massive, deep low end, but rather lots of uncompressed volume in the mid bass (that 50h region) that makes it really work at surprisingly loud volumes with very little compression, etc.

And, since you are also familiar with the 12/6 an 15/6 cabs, it has a bit more bite in the upper mids, and a nice amount of sparkly up top if you want it versus those boxes.

 

[Chef]

I concluded long ago that 12/6 or 15/6 were fail for me, as I just flat out have to have more/different treble response than that.

Duke's horn isn't uber shiny/modern/zingy, but it ''represents'' well.

I'm really particular about how my Sadowsky sounds, and it's pretty quickly apparent to me when a cab is or isn't going to do that. My bass sounded like my bass: nice!

There have been several pieces of gear I've tried over the last year that were immediate fails in that regard. This isn't one of those

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke's horn isn't uber shiny/modern/zingy, but it ''represents'' well.

I'm really particular about how my Sadowsky sounds, and it's pretty quickly apparent to me when a cab is or isn't going to do that. My bass sounded like my bass: nice!

Thanks! I'll have to let my chef beta tester for the project that resulted in the Thunderchild know what a great job he did...

 

[lomo]

Duke, do you anticipate the TC15 will be bigger down low than the 12, or simply a bit louder?

(also check your email inbox )

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I'm thinking about attaching my GB 6.0 head (still removable) to my TC and then adding an Extendo-Handle. Nice package, but it lifts the box off the floor a couple inches. What are your thoughts about this spine-selfish plan?

My policy is: Once your check clears, you can do anything you want to the cab!

But... I'm not sure how you'd go about adding the Extendo-Handle; I'm under the impression it requires some free space down the back of the cab, and I'm not sure it's there. I have a bad habit of making the back of the cab pretty busy. Also, to intall the Extendo-Handle, you may have to cut passages through the horizontal "window pane" brace that sits between woofer and horn.

If you decide to do surgery, I suggest you remove the horn before you remove the woofer, so that you can reach in and push the woofer up to get it started. I recommend a manual screwdriver on the screws holding the woofer in place so that you can feel what's going on and stop if there's a problem. I use a large, well-fitting flat blade for the final tightening and initial untightening, and a Phillps for the rest, because it's less likely to slip out.

When putting the woofer-holding screws back in, be very sensitive to any binding of the threads. A bit of WD-40 on the screw probably isn't a bad precaution, and you may have to adjust the seating of the woofer a bit so that all of the screws go in easily. If you get any binding, stop immediately and back out if possible - what you don't want is to "spin" the hurricane nut, because then you have a bigger problem (though not an insurmountable one, because you can remove the ports and access the inside of the cab). I go around two or three times on the final tightening; don't super-gorilla tighten it, but you do want to mash the gasket pretty tight so that the woofer cannot vibrate independent of the cab.

As for the effect of raising the cab a few inches off the floor, perhaps a very slight reduction in low-end energy. Easy enough to test-driver before you commit.

Best of luck with it!

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke, do you anticipate the TC15 will be bigger down low than the 12, or simply a bit louder?

(also check your email inbox )

Only very slightly "bigger"; the two curves model within 1/2 dB of one another. So I would expect the difference to be audible, but not significant.

 

[lomo]

Only very slightly "bigger"; the two curves model within 1/2 dB of one another. So I would expect the difference to be audible, but not significant.

Perfect

 

[Lee Barker]

As for the effect of raising the cab a few inches off the floor, perhaps a very slight reduction in low-end energy. Easy enough to test-driver before you commit.

Best of luck with it!

Oh, the handle would just externally mount on the back or side; probably the side.

And you're right, I'll take some encyclopedias to the next gig and try the TC up a bit and see if a corner of the world falls off.

Gosh, I couldn't even think about doing anything to the inside of your masterpiece, Duke! Some Mojo might leak out, and when you're fooling folks with the marginal talent I have, you just don't take risks like that! They might throw zucchini.

 

[loopee]

Thanks Kjung....the next time I play them I'll be twisting knobs to get the best I tone I need from the Tots and no more a/b'ing.......a/b'ing was just to give me an idea of the difference between the cabs....I'm sure the Tots will give me what I want once I EQ the head for these particular cabs.........they sound fantastic already so it won't take much tweaking........thanks

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Ken - I'm sure the fEARful folk can get a like-response in the highs through crossing over the tweeter much lower to match the mid driver's dispersion - as I remember Passinwind experimenting with - but then you might run into difficulty if you wanted to adjust the general level of highs / play with distortion and didn't have the EQ for it. Some people might prefer the sound of distortion through the mid driver and the associated high-end rolloff more, while I'm still pretty thrilled with Duke's high-end rolloff filter. Maybe Charlie has some views on how the TC compares sonically to a three-way with a more tightly-integrated mid/tweeter? He seemed to suggest at one point there wasn't a whole lot of difference tonally, if I remember correctly, but he prefers the smaller box and weight with the TC.

 

[tombowlus]

I concluded long ago that 12/6 or 15/6 were fail for me, as I just flat out have to have more/different treble response than that.

First off, +1 to your comments on the TC112AF so far. Did you take the blue tape off the back tweeter?

Regarding the 12/6 or 15/6 designs, have you tried one with the tweeter (and greenboy's/Duke's crossover)? It's still a different animal from the TC112, but might be closer to what you like to hear than the models without a tweeter.

 

[KJung]

First off, +1 to your comments on the TC112AF so far. Did you take the blue tape off the back tweeter?

Regarding the 12/6 or 15/6 designs, have you tried one with the tweeter (and greenboy's/Duke's crossover)? It's still a different animal from the TC112, but might be closer to what you like to hear than the models without a tweeter.

From many discussions with Chef, I believe what he is hearing (and why I dig the Thunderchild more than the many 12/6 and 12/6/1 executions I've had the pleasure of trying) is the nature of the upper midrange and lower treble (i.e., the nature of the tonality of that 'bright' portion of the bass guitar range) versus what is going on 4K and above.

There is quite a different nature to that tonal area between the lower crossed over 12/6's with that range of midrange coming out of the mid driver, and Dukes somewhat higher crossover with more of that character coming from the top of the driver (which I greatly prefer).

Of course, quite a differene down low also, which impacts the perception of the mid response.

Not a 'better or worse' thing at all, but different enough that I would not call these cabs 'interchangeable'.

 

[Chef]

First thing I did was take the tape off
Here's why:
One side benefit of rear porting, as stated to my by one of the drummers I work with:
Man, I sure can hear that cab better than some of the others you use.
Nightclubs often have you smushed up against the back wall in terms of stage depth. This can also mean the drummer and bass cab are side by side at best or, drums slightly behind the cab at worst.
The TC's rear porting +_ rear firing horn really made the drummer happy.

Fearful:
No sir, haven't had one with a horn.
Yet.
I understand that that formula is might likely be a win for me, and in fact was really close to having two 12/6/1 built when neo prices went all stoopid

First off, +1 to your comments on the TC112AF so far. Did you take the blue tape off the back tweeter?

Regarding the 12/6 or 15/6 designs, have you tried one with the tweeter (and greenboy's/Duke's crossover)? It's still a different animal from the TC112, but might be closer to what you like to hear than the models without a tweeter.

 

[KJung]

First thing I did was take the tape off
Here's why:
One side benefit of rear porting, as stated to my by one of the drummers I work with:
Man, I sure can hear that cab better than some of the others you use.
Nightclubs often have you smushed up against the back wall in terms of stage depth. This can also mean the drummer and bass cab are side by side at best or, drums slightly behind the cab at worst.
The TC's rear porting +_ rear firing horn really made the drummer happy.

Fearful:
No sir, haven't had one with a horn.
Yet.
I understand that that formula is might likely be a win for me, and in fact was really close to having two 12/6/1 built when neo prices went all stoopid

Very little actual 'sound' coming out of those rear ports, and the rear mounted tweeter would only be translating upper treble, which wouldn't impact much of what you are reporting. And any actual sound that is coming from those ports is mostly omnidirectional anyway, making port location (as most know) kind of a moot point.

What your drummer is hearing (IMO and IME) is the wider range of upper midrange dispersion due to the design of that cab. While upper midrange dispersion is a bit 'over-emphasized' by some on this site IMO, it does make a bit of difference on small stages where you are crammed together all in a line. Of course, the low end is omnidirectional, but having a bit wider dispersion above 500hz (due to the single, relatively small woofer design and the lower crossover of the horn) helps people nearfield and way to the side of the cab hear the 'note attack' a bit better, which can be a huge difference.

Edit: If you want to test this out, just play a set with the port plugs in (and turn off the rear tweeter if that is possible)! Your drummer will (IMO) still be impressed!