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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

#201
No problem! I always support the innovation and hate to see a well thought out design (and I know yours are!) go to waste. I always wanted a TC. I remember you telling me that the Faital was supposed to go in a non existent cab you'd designed. At that point, I knew I wanted one built because that speaker was too good for the cab it was in. :D

If your phone call was anything like mine from Mike, this cab should probably get into the TB market at least. I think it's gonna be a monster. Also, there's a somewhat* scientifically based and backed consensus on here that speaker size is not indicative of its performance characteristics and these are the guys eating it up (like me!) I've got an 850w power amp waiting for it! Oh yeah, anyone local to me is free to try it (schedules permitting) and I can provide live show dates for demos too... And there's a lot of those.

But seriously, you and Mike do great work (including when you team up!) and I'm glad I can rock your guys best. :)

*a star was necessary because some people try too hard to be quantitative when dealing with what most people only understand as qualitative issues when ultimately they're both.
 
#203
christw said:
I always support the innovation and hate to see a well thought out design (and I know yours are!) go to waste. I always wanted a TC. I remember you telling me that the Faital was supposed to go in a non existent cab you'd designed.
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Thank you very much!

Yeah the Faital 18FH500 is like an undiscovered beast. For a long time now the mighty Kappalite 3015LF has been kicking 18's to the curb, but the big 18FH500 is poised to change that. According to my modelling program, the real-world max output gap between the 18FH500 and the 3015LF is comparable to the gap between the 3015LF and the 3012LF.

Your cab is also the single most low-end-adjustable cab I've designed, as you can choose between four different tuning frequencies and sealed box, and unlike its predecessors, this cab will still have decent low end in sealed box mode (-4.5 dB at the 62 Hz first overtone of low B).

otto B said:
I would like to hear your comments. what's the sound difference between the TC112 4 Ohms and TC112 8 Ohms.
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The 8 ohm version goes deeper, while the 4 ohm version is more efficient (this aside from its higher voltage sensitivity as a 4 ohm cab). The switchology on the 8 offers more flexibility - it's a bit more aggressive than the 4 with the midrange switch in "grindy" mode, and arguably more studio-monitor-like than the 4 in "smoothy" mode.

All of the above is just my opinion... not being a gigging musician, I'm open to the more real-world opinions of actual users!!
 
#204
I did some checking on 18's myself for a DIY and also ended up with Faital. That 18FH500 is very impressive and doesn't look like it needs a huge box to sound good. It seems to have 3dB over the 15's. I wondered about the possible advantage of the 4 ohm 18FH510 if you didn't mind the extra 10 lbs of a ferrite magnet. 600 watts at 4 ohms would allow a wide range of micros to really drive it. One difference I wondered about was whether the slightly more pronounced dip around 350 hz would be noticeable? With the right tuning and mid driver match I could see this bringing the thunder but with plenty of punch and articulation - not your typical 18-loaded cab.
 
#207
5StringPocket said:
I did some checking on 18's myself for a DIY and also ended up with Faital. That 18FH500 is very impressive and doesn't look like it needs a huge box to sound good. It seems to have 3dB over the 15's. I wondered about the possible advantage of the 4 ohm 18FH510 if you didn't mind the extra 10 lbs of a ferrite magnet. 600 watts at 4 ohms would allow a wide range of micros to really drive it. One difference I wondered about was whether the slightly more pronounced dip around 350 hz would be noticeable? With the right tuning and mid driver match I could see this bringing the thunder but with plenty of punch and articulation - not your typical 18-loaded cab.
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The 18FH500 looks good on paper in a wide range of cab sizes, but I think it sounds best when you don't try to shrink the cab size down too much. So these are going to be fairly big.

I can certainly understand that people would like a 4 ohm cab, but I'm not planning to go with the ceramic 4 ohm 18FH510. There are a bunch of guys out there who have found amplifier solutions to cabs that use a single (8 ohm) 3015LF, and similar solutions would probably work for a cab based on the (also 8 ohm) 18FH500.

Besides, like you, I have some reservations about that 300 Hz dip in the 18FH510.

3rdcurve said:
I bet the 18FH500 would matchup beautifully with the M5N8-80!
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Dude... you're reading ahead! Stop spoiling it for the rest of us!!

What you're describing is the Hathor 118. The Thunderchild series uses a compression driver and PA-style horn for the top end, and the Hathor series uses a cone midrange section in an open-format sub-enclosure (that afaik is something no one else is doing).

I haven't prototyped the Hathor 118 yet, but as you've probably guessed by now, it's in the pipeline too. In fact I've done enough measurements with the drivers in question that I can model it on my computer, and it looks pretty good.
 
#209
Dude... you're reading ahead! Stop spoiling it for the rest of us!!



What you're describing is the Hathor 118. The Thunderchild series uses a compression driver and PA-style horn for the top end, and the Hathor series uses a cone midrange section in an open-format sub-enclosure (that afaik is something no one else is doing).



I haven't prototyped the Hathor 118 yet, but as you've probably guessed by now, it's in the pipeline too. In fact I've done enough measurements with the drivers in question that I can model it on my computer, and it looks pretty good.[/QUOTE]


DOH, sorry Duke! FWIW, I own a cab that should kill all G.A.S.......yet this Hathor 118 idea has me sweating.
 
#210
Ruben's TC112v2 and TC115 v2 both are 8 ohm cabs.
ImageUploadedByTalkBass1384318583.603006.jpg
 
#211
the thunderchild 112 AF sounded great with my upright this weekend as it always does, but we used it to play recorded music through on the break (through channel 2 on my walter woods amp) and even hooked up a microphone a for announcements. it sounded like a high end PA to me. the voice with mic was full and rich. not a reason to buy the cab, but a nice side benefit
 
#212
coyoteboy said:
Does a 112 not have enough going on for the Hathor spec?
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Well the Hathor 112 has been quietly in development for a while. Originally I was just going to adapt the TC112 cabinet, but then I got to thinking, the stock Kappalite 3012LF will actually do a decent job in a considerably smaller box. If my target is the 62 Hz first overtone of low-B, then (even with the space taken up by the open-format mid chamber) we can do some serious shrinking.

So the Hathor 112 is going to come in at about 18" tall, 14" wide, and 13.5" deep, but it will have uber-112 class performance (and price... sorry!). It will also have an unusual feature that I'm keeping under my hat for now, that I think will make it a very nice little coffeehouse/small gig/acoustic gig cab.

3rdcurve said:
DOH, sorry Duke!
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No biggie!

3rdcurve said:
FWIW, I own a cab that should kill all G.A.S.......yet this Hathor 118 idea has me sweating.
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Sounds to me like you need therapy, not another bass cab!!

Seriously, thanks for the encouragement.

shwashwa said:
the thunderchild 112 AF sounded great with my upright this weekend as it always does, but we used it to play recorded music through on the break (through channel 2 on my walter woods amp) and even hooked up a microphone a for announcements. it sounded like a high end PA to me. the voice with mic was full and rich. not a reason to buy the cab, but a nice side benefit
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yup the Thunderchild series are very close to being compact high-end PA cabs, with enough low end extension and headroom to handle electric bass.
 
#213
DukeLeJeune said:
Well the Hathor 112 has been quietly in development for a while. Originally I was just going to adapt the TC112 cabinet, but then I got to thinking, the stock Kappalite 3012LF will actually do a decent job in a considerably smaller box. If my target is the 62 Hz first overtone of low-B, then (even with the space taken up by the open-format mid chamber) we can do some serious shrinking.

So the Hathor 112 is going to come in at about 18" tall, 14" wide, and 13.5" deep, but it will have uber-112 class performance (and price... sorry!). It will also have an unusual feature that I'm keeping under my hat for now, that I think will make it a very nice little coffeehouse/small gig/acoustic gig cab.
Click to expand...

So it will be 8ohms only in this case. Im unfamiliar with the term "open-format" otherwise sounds like a cool recipe.
 
#215
The Thunderchild 118 arrived today! I'll be testing it out tomorrow with a bunch of different amps and instruments (including musical playback!). You guys don't even know how excited I am. I'm making my brother take the dog to the park so I don't hurt his ears. Sorry for the crap photo. :)

DukeLeJeune said:
Your cab is also the single most low-end-adjustable cab I've designed, as you can choose between four different tuning frequencies and sealed box, and unlike its predecessors, this cab will still have decent low end in sealed box mode (-4.5 dB at the 62 Hz first overtone of low B).
Click to expand...

Dang it, stop being so good at what you do! :p

tc18_zps5edb664a.gif
 
#216
coyoteboy said:
So it will be 8ohms only in this case. Im unfamiliar with the term "open-format" otherwise sounds like a cool recipe.
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In the Hathor series, Duke leaves the mid chamber open on top, so that some of the mids travel up and reach your ears. The design purportedly makes it easier to monitor yourself on tight stages when you're right up next to your cab and the mids would normally just be blowing at your knees.

Duke, please correct me if I've gotten something wrong here.

Cheers,
Liam
 
#217
coyoteboy said:
So it will be 8ohms only in this case. Im unfamiliar with the term "open-format" otherwise sounds like a cool recipe.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Hathor 112 will be 8 ohms only.

The "open format" mid-chamber is one that's open to the outside world; not sure if I "invented" it, but I'm not aware of anyone else doing something similar. Here's a shot of the first cab I did with the open format mid chamber, the Hathor 1544. You can see the openings along the top and upper side:

gi.mpl?u=2112&f=1544.jpg


The advantages are better dispersion both horizontally and vertically - you can hear the overtones from virtually on top of the cab - and a more relaxed, unboxy, "open" sound. The disadvantages are a more complicated (and expensive) build, lack of backpressure at low frequencies to protect the cone from over-excursion, and a relatively large amount of internal volume gets taken up by the midrange driver(s).

steubig said:
now i'm listening!
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I was thinking of you! Thanks for dropping in. The Hathor 112 isn't uber petite, but imo there's a big gap in performance between the 3012LF and the next closest high-end small-box woofer (which is probably the Faital 8PR200).
 
#218
liam_g said:
In the Hathor series, Duke leaves the mid chamber open on top, so that some of the mids travel up and reach your ears. The design purportedly makes it easier to monitor yourself on tight stages when you're right up next to your cab and the mids would normally just be blowing at your knees.

Duke, please correct me if I've gotten something wrong here.

Cheers,
Liam
Click to expand...

Very good description! Looks like you posted while I was typing.

The energy coming off the back of a midrange cone is almost as full-spectrum as that coming off the front (the dustcap can make a difference), so we're providing a path for some of that backwave energy to bounce up at your ears. I also like to leave the sides of the midrange chamber open as well, as ime that sounds better.
 

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