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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

#6,221
DukeLeJeune said:
High-end audio has been frustrating for me. One of its dirty little secrets is that most audiophiles listen primarily with their eyes. Most also subscribe to a set of cherished beliefs that work against what I do, such as "horns honk" and "big woofers are slow". Bass players on the other hand tend to be far more results-oriented, and to get over their prejudices very quickly. Audiophiles as a group claim to be consistent in their likes and dislikes, but then their assessments are all over the map as if each speaks his own dialect, such that one audiophile seldom really trusts the descriptions of another. On the other hand bass players openly and freely have huge differences in their likes and dislikes, but their assessments are very consistent - they speak the same dialect! - and therefore they tend to trust one another's descriptions a lot more than audiophiles do.
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duke, tons of interesting stuff in your last few posts.

however, this little bit makes me chuckle, as the people who give me the most crap about playing 6-string basses (and, in the past, using effects) have almost always been other bass players—without one note ever being heard!

and i've had plenty of discussions with bass players who think their theory is more important that my experience (e.g., i've never tried it, but i know that it can't work that way).

anyway, grumpy oldish dude signing off.
 
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#6,223
Being exposed to the audiophile world it has it's good points and bad points.
You can't lump it as all BS. I really learned how to listen to a wide variety of music because of it.
And really hear the sound of what each designer was going for weather it be speakers, electronics or
dare I say it, speaker wire and interconnects. They don't all sound the same.
Nothing is perfect and I used to see people get in heroic arguments over gear of all types.
After all does a Ford ride like a chevy? Both are cars.
Does a Whopper taste like a McDonalds? Both hamburgers right?
Just enjoy it.
 
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#6,224
Type-55 said:
Being exposed to the audiophile world it has it's good points and bad points.
You can't lump it as all BS.
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The one glaring failure / proverbial elephant in the room in the audiophile world is the nearly universal lack of blind listening tests. The main players have no interest in objective evaluation of gear with only ears, and neither do the manufacturers
:-(.
 
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#6,225
Type-55 said:
You used to use Harry Kolbe cabs?
I always wondered what these sounded like.
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i did. for at least 12 years, i think.

i liked them, but some of that might have been in reaction to what i'd been using previously and my dissatisfaction . . . i wanted something that sounded more open than 10s and more focussed than 15s. the kolbes did that. they have a pretty nice bark and their high end was not raunchy. pretty muted, really, but that worked for me. they probably weren't massive dub wise cabs, but i did okay (usually that means i eq the crap out of stuff). they were loud enough for what i was doing.
 
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#6,226
lomo said:
The one glaring failure / proverbial elephant in the room in the audiophile world is the nearly universal lack of blind listening tests. The main players have no interest in objective evaluation of gear with only ears, and neither do the manufacturers
:-(.
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Unfortunately I can't agree with this at all. Maybe some listen with there eyes but after being associated with the senior editor of The Absolute Sound for many years and listening to tones of esoteric gear, after a while if you don't listen with your ears what's the point?
 
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#6,227
Type-55 said:
Unfortunately I can't agree with this at all. Maybe some listen with there eyes but after being associated with the senior editor of The Absolute Sound for many years and listening to tones of esoteric gear, after a while if you don't listen with your ears what's the point?
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That's my point. Ears are all that matter. Blind testing is the only way to be objective. Comparing things, usually a reference standard and other pieces of gear, using the same recordings, is only objective if the observers do not know exactly what they are listening to when they form their opinions. Otherwise the observers are biased...there is no way around this.
 
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#6,229
837-03069886en_Masterfile.jpg


I think a gingham bowtie would make the high-mids a bit more robust, with a nice, oaky afterbirth.
 
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#6,231
shwashwa said:
im definitely interested in the birdhaus for upright bass, but would like to suggest a slight variation. so many gigs the amp is literally right up against the back of my legs. i cant hear a thing standing literally right on top of it. makes it hard to play in tune this way. i would love to see speakers on the top! at least one...
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just want to make duke aware of this... i suggested this back in 2016. i got a lot of resistance in the thread. i am an upright player. i need to hear myself in tune. the only solution i currently have is to put a speaker on a chair (losing floor coupling) or laying my AI cab on its back so the 10 inch fires forward and the small speaker fires up. phil jones believes this is a good idea but he only makes a combo. ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) if there were a cabinet only version i would have bought it long ago. now there is this NEW ULTRA-LIGHT ULTRA-SMALL SPEAKER from Acoustic Image Review and Recording will follow
and seems to be getting good reviews. i dont know how it sounds but this is a niche waiting to be filled. a birdhaus with foward firing speakers and upward firing speakers would not lose floor coupling and would be able to be heard by the bassist at the same time. best of both worlds. i honestly dont care what people in the audience think of my tone, or the dispersion or whatever. i need to hear myself so i dont try to muscle the instrument and over play and so i can play in tune. my personal performance is my number 1 priority and this is a tool that would help me get there better. every gig i am playing at the limits of my ability. a speaker like this would be part of my instrument so to speak, helping me to make better music. put the speakers on the birdhaus on adjacent sides rather than opposite side that way you could stand it upright and have speakers firing frowards in 2 directions, or lay it on its back and have 2 firing up and 2 forward. put the speaker jack on the top (or side, depending on your perspective) and you could back it right up against a wall for big lows. make it small and it will sell. please name it "The Swanson" thank you.
 
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#6,234
shwashwa said:
just want to make duke aware of this... i suggested this back in 2016. i got a lot of resistance in the thread. i am an upright player. i need to hear myself in tune. the only solution i currently have is to put a speaker on a chair (losing floor coupling) or laying my AI cab on its back so the 10 inch fires forward and the small speaker fires up. phil jones believes this is a good idea but he only makes a combo. ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) if there were a cabinet only version i would have bought it long ago. now there is this NEW ULTRA-LIGHT ULTRA-SMALL SPEAKER from Acoustic Image Review and Recording will follow
and seems to be getting good reviews. i dont know how it sounds but this is a niche waiting to be filled. a birdhaus with foward firing speakers and upward firing speakers would not lose floor coupling and would be able to be heard by the bassist at the same time. best of both worlds. i honestly dont care what people in the audience think of my tone, or the dispersion or whatever. i need to hear myself so i dont try to muscle the instrument and over play and so i can play in tune. my personal performance is my number 1 priority and this is a tool that would help me get there better. every gig i am playing at the limits of my ability. a speaker like this would be part of my instrument so to speak, helping me to make better music. put the speakers on the birdhaus on adjacent sides rather than opposite side that way you could stand it upright and have speakers firing frowards in 2 directions, or lay it on its back and have 2 firing up and 2 forward. put the speaker jack on the top (or side, depending on your perspective) and you could back it right up against a wall for big lows. make it small and it will sell. please name it "The Swanson" thank you.
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What about some variation on the Hathor's side and top openings for the mids? I would think hearing mids would help hearing your intonation better. But of course I could be completely wrong.
 
#6,235
ahc said:
What about some variation on the Hathor's side and top openings for the mids? I would think hearing mids would help hearing your intonation better. But of course I could be completely wrong.
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Thanks but what I'm looking for is full range, two pointing up two pointing forward. And smaller than hathor hopefully. 4 inch speakers would be perfect, maybe 6 inch. No crossover or Tweeter please.
 
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#6,236
Of course I could just go buy the new acoustic image speaker, but I'm trying to help Duke out here and get a product that's exactly what I'm looking for at the same time. I don't know how the new acoustic image speaker performs, but I would think that having the two forward firing speakers and retaining the floor coupling would be an advantage. The upright bass Community needs this and we need small. The Phil Jones amp looks perfect, except he doesn't sell it without the amp. I suggested this over a year ago and still no one has filled the niche although acoustic image appears to have listened somewhat.
 
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#6,237
I've played the Phil Jones amp and it really is great. That's why I'm convinced that the speaker design I'm describing will work. The only thing is, I've already got a million amps, all of which I like better than the Phil Jones amp, and I don't need another one. A cabinet only version of this thing seems like a no-brainer and I can't believe it doesn't already exist
 
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#6,238
shwashwa said:
just want to make duke aware of this... i suggested this back in 2016... i need to hear myself in tune... i dont know how it sounds but this is a niche waiting to be filled. a birdhaus with foward firing speakers and upward firing speakers would not lose floor coupling and would be able to be heard by the bassist at the same time. best of both worlds.
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I haven't forgotten your suggestion, but imo it needs to be a two-way cab for the sake of clarity top-end and articulation, and a two-way Birdhaus is overly complexicated.

What I have in mind would have multiple 3" cones (kinda like the Changeling) and a single woofer. Imo my custom 10" looks good for this application, as it is very smooth.

I'm still mentally juggling some of the tradeoffs, as there are several different ways this can be done. I may have to move the handle around to the side.

And then there's this: An amp sitting atop the cab is almost guaranteed to at least partially block the upfiring driver. Is that okay?
 
#6,239
I play through sealed Tweetter less cabs without a crossover currently. They work just fine. I want the full range sound coming straight up to my ear , not a crossover frequency band. The Phil Jones is full range, the new acoustic image is one speaker shooting straight up. No crossover. In my opinion amplifiers do not belong on the speaker anyway, so that is a positive as far as I'm concerned. I can find something else to hold an amp. A chair works, the floor works. My main concern is my performance.
 
#6,240
No need to get overly complicated here. The Phil Jones design has been around for many years and is successful and gets good reviews from the people who use it. I play through one for several hours and thought it was great, the only thing is I don't need another amplifier and I don't need to pay for another amplifier. No need to reinvent the wheel I think
 

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