AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[Passinwind]

OK, I've got a question for y'all. My TC212 has 2 8ohm 3012LF drivers and is rated at 900W (450W each). I noticed that the Fearless F112 which uses the same driver (although it's a 3-way design) is rated at 900W (for one 12"), and the Barefaced BB2, which is said to have a driver similar to or based on the 3012LF, says "recommended power 150-800W". So, what's the story? Can these drivers indeed take 800-900W? Is the TC212's 900W too conservative? Would it be fine, say, with a 1200W amp (600+600W per driver)? Thanks!

Using a 900W rated amp and actually feeding the cab 900W for any substantial amount of time are two very different things. @ThisBass and @agedhorse have both posted pretty extensively on that subject.

FWIW, I've been using amps rated quite a bit higher than 450W with my 4 ohm TC112 for about 8 years now. But in no way would I tell you or anyone else that it's OK for you to do so. Frankly, I've had a few big scares (idiots hot plugging basses at jams mostly) and potentially shortened the driver's lifetime. And I rarely play rock music, only play with a drummer occasionally, and can generally hear signs of distress instantly. I've also blown quite a few drivers over the years (in other cabs), so I pretty much never give in to the temptation to crank things a little more as the evening progresses.

 

[MarkA]

The Hathors have slots in the chamber that houses the 3" driver on top and side of the cab. I've found that can help with hearing yourself when standing right on top of the cab. Well, not literally on top - that's reserved for stage diving.

Plus something about the note attack from the 3" helps hearing yourself as well.

I was talking about a thunderchild

The first version had a 50 by 90 degree horn (IIRC), so turning it sideways would improve vertical dispersion at the expense of horizontal. The newer ones have a more symmetrical throw, so turning the cab would just put the tweeter lower, a loss, and probably the only potential gain would be from floor reflections. If you are stuck in close that's unlikely to be a win, IMO and IME.

How much the back tweeter will help (assuming AF version, which I think is about to become the default) depends a lot on whatever is or isn't behind the cab.

I can't comment much on the Thunderchild -- I will defer to @Passinwind, there, and to Duke if he chimes in.

If the voicing of the Hathor cabs agreed with you, @shwashwa (I know you asked about the Thunderchild), one would be a better choice for monitoring than many small cabs, when standing very close, for the reason @nostatic mentioned.

On reading your question last night, I did a quick experiment with mine, standing about six feet away and backing up, while playing, until my calf was touching the grill covering the woofer. The sound changes, for sure, in that last foot or so, but there is still pretty decent pitch intelligibility and mid information reaching your ear. I tried moving the amp to cover the top openings to the mid chamber and that lessened. I suspect it would lessen further if I were to plug up those openings and the ones on the sides.

I can't say how it would compare to the Thunderchild in that regard. With any small cab on the floor, if you're having trouble making out what you're playing, tilting it up on a wedge might help. With a sideways TC (or Hathor, or whatever), if the primary purpose is self-monitoring (as opposed to bandmates and/or audience hearing you via your rig), you might still try tilting it up -- might even try putting it in front of you, if the setup allows it.

 

[nutdog]

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Anybody hear of the 18 yet?

I'm trying to keep the 118's from becoming unduly time-consuming builds, which was the main drawback of the original 1855. So far I have discarded several different 118 ideas after getting the jigs almost finished because I realized, this thing is going to take me way too much time to build.

Still looking like there will be two 118's, a "Hathor-ish" one and a "Thunderchild-ish" one.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if the mids were in gankville or not.

This is just my opinion, but I think of "gank" as being centered around 800 Hz or so.

In my deliberate "grindy" voicing (mid switch "up"), I'm shooting for emphasis about an octave above that. And with the midrange switch in "smooth" mode ("down") on most of my Hathor and Changeling cabs, I'm scooping somewhere around that 800 Hz region, or not too far above it, by at least a little bit.

But that's all based on my somewhat arbitrary opinion about where "gankville" lies.

My TC212 has 2 8ohm 3012LF drivers and is rated at 900W (450W each). I noticed that the Fearless F112 which uses the same driver (although it's a 3-way design) is rated at 900W (for one 12"), and the Barefaced BB2, which is said to have a driver similar to or based on the 3012LF, says "recommended power 150-800W". So, what's the story? Can these drivers indeed take 800-900W? Is the TC212's 900W too conservative? Would it be fine, say, with a 1200W amp (600+600W per driver)? Thanks!

As you turn up the volume, something is going to go non-linear first. It might be woofer excursion (fartout), it might be port airspeed, it might be thermal compression, it might be crossover components saturating (not easy to notice). Probably the worst thing is, if the voice coil melts before the cab makes any other obvious signs of distress. Well one of the drawbacks of these Kappalite "uber-woofers" is, they don't fart out easily. So that makes it much easier for you to cook the voice coil. You make it through that last loudest set and think everything is fine, and then next time you plug in, you notice that scratchy sound.

You know that old saying, "that which does not kill you makes you stronger"? Well, it does not apply to woofers. Thermal damage is cumulative. Push any woofer too hard too often, and it will fail.

I don't get very many woofer failures at the power handling ratings I use, but I still get a few. Seems like most of the time something like this happened: The band thought they'd have front-of-house support, and they didn't, and the cab had to carry a pretty big room.

Anyway I don't think there is a significant difference in real-world power handling between my cabs and the others you mentioned, but I could be wrong.

 

[McFarlin]

When you've run out of Calgon bath beads:

 

[Lowendtech]

View attachment 3328795
When you've run out of Calgon bath beads.

That looks like a whole bunch of fun, that does.
I need a 212. To go with my 2 12’s.

 

[Lowendtech]

True fact:
The recessed side handles on a C1533 conveniently hold a port plug.
Just sharing.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

True fact:
The recessed side handles on a C1533 conveniently hold a port plug.
Just sharing.
View attachment 3330508

That is just too cool! But how in the world did my marketing department AND my engineering department BOTH miss that?

You guys are both fired!!

Lowendtech, I've got two job openings. The pay sucks but just think of the prestige!

 

[allenhumble]

Nice room

True fact:
The recessed side handles on a C1533 conveniently hold a port plug.
Just sharing.
View attachment 3330508

 

[Lowendtech]

That is just too cool! But how in the world did my marketing department AND my engineering department BOTH miss that?

You guys are both fired!!

Lowendtech, I've got two job openings. The pay sucks but just think of the prestige!

So I start tomorrow, then?
How much....er... frequent flyer miles....ah..... umm .... I could get to the airport in a couple of hours.....ehrm....
sure, ok.

Oh yeah, customs. Add an hour or so.

 

[bordinco90]

Well I called Duke and changed my order. I was going to get the Hathor 212, but now I'm getting the Hathor 1506 for portability purposes. Duke was very understanding and changed the order no problem. Best customer service in the Business! I can't wait to get my cab in!!!

 

[Roxbororob]

Thats it! Im going home to review my 2019 gear budget...

 

[Lowendtech]

Well I called Duke and changed my order. I was going to get the Hathor 212, but now I'm getting the Hathor 1506 for portability purposes. Duke was very understanding and changed the order no problem. Best customer service in the Business! I can't wait to get my cab in!!!

I’d venture a guess to say that the portability will be similar. There’s only about 6 lbs and 1 dB sensitivity difference and the 212 handles twice the power.
If anyone has a 212, thinks it’s too much and wants a C1533, pm me. I love Duke’s cabs.

 

[bordinco90]

I’d venture a guess to say that the portability will be similar. There’s only about 6 lbs and 1 dB sensitivity difference and the 212 handles twice the power.
If anyone has a 212, thinks it’s too much and wants a C1533, pm me. I love Duke’s cabs.

Well I also used our band as a decidond factor. We have monitors and have FOH support at every show. I felt like I didn't need anything bigger/louder than the 1506.

 

[stubborne]

Well I also used our band as a decidond factor. We have monitors and have FOH support at every show. I felt like I didn't need anything bigger/louder than the 1506.

So far through about 5 shows, one pretty big and loud, I have not felt I need more than the H1506 (MB Fusion 500W at 4-ohm). I did email Duke with some placement and porting questions, however. Felt I needed a bit more knowledge about the effect of porting. Placement on stage, especially big stages, is very important.

I should say I have FOH support if needed, so it's all about stage volume and balance. Our drummer is the world's loudest beater!!

 

[TomB]

So far through about 5 shows, one pretty big and loud, I have not felt I need more than the H1506 (MB Fusion 500W at 4-ohm). I did email Duke with some placement and porting questions, however. Felt I needed a bit more knowledge about the effect of porting. Placement on stage, especially big stages, is very important.

I should say I have FOH support if needed, so it's all about stage volume and balance. Our drummer is the world's loudest beater!!

I use a 115TC with a MBF 500, and haven't needed anything larger in years. I typically run with 2 plugs in, but have run from 0 to 4 (4 was mostly to experiment). ...very versatile cabs. I'm curious what you find critical about placement, as I haven't been too sensitive to the issue.

 

[stubborne]

I use a 115TC with a MBF 500, and haven't needed anything larger in years. I typically run with 2 plugs in, but have run from 0 to 4 (4 was mostly to experiment). ...very versatile cabs. I'm curious what you find critical about placement, as I haven't been too sensitive to the issue.

Well, it's all about tone right? I want the clearest, fattest, most accurate sound I can hear from my cabinet. It matters where I stand in relation to the cab. Am I on top of it? Is it in a corner? Is it buried under 14 cymbals? I'm still experimenting with that placement, as well as the best porting config. The best part of this journey, is I'm learning while playing some kick ass rock n roll for a bunch of hyped-up fun lovin folks!!

 

[Dominick C.]

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Hello Talkbass my old friend. How I miss thee. Here are 4 new songs for your consideration.

Bass: 84 Smith
Amp: Monique & M700
Cabs: Audio Kinesis Hathor and Thunderchild
Board: submarine>Cali76TXP>Ad4096>Thumpinator

If you like our music consider voting for us on the ima’s.
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Tell your friends

 

[Ken Lloyd]

So far through about 5 shows, one pretty big and loud, I have not felt I need more than the H1506 (MB Fusion 500W at 4-ohm). I did email Duke with some placement and porting questions, however. Felt I needed a bit more knowledge about the effect of porting. Placement on stage, especially big stages, is very important.

I should say I have FOH support if needed, so it's all about stage volume and balance. Our drummer is the world's loudest beater!!

I thought I played with the world's loudest slammer! Can't seem to hear himself.

 

[Dragonlord]

TC112 ordered, as a more portable alternative to my TC212! One question for those who have ordered a TC112 cover from LeCover, this is what they have on their website:
Your LeCover will fit these dimensions:
Width: 14"
Depth: 13 1/2", with port plugs 14"
Height: 22"

On the AK website it just says 22"x14"x14", do you think the dimensions they have at LeCover are OK or should I talk to them about it? Thanks!