AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[DukeLeJeune]

I had a dream last night in which I was on TB, reading the AK thread, and when I scrolled to the latest Duke post, Duke's avatar photo began to politely reprimand me about something. Like I was Skypeing with Duke via his avatar photo...weird. Can't remember what I was being reprimanded about, and while it was unsettling when I first woke up it seems funny now. No disrespect meant, Duke!

I'm sure you mean well, but maybe it would have been better if you hadn't revealed my secret ability to enter people's dreams and give them vague glimpses of future conversations...

 

[Al Kraft]

I'm sure you mean well, but maybe it would have been better if you hadn't revealed my secret ability to enter people's dreams and give them vague glimpses of future conversations...

I just put a heavy book on top of the cover on my AK cab and turned the speaker side to wall...this whole deal has "creepy mojo thing" written all over it...

 

[mexicanyella]

Well, it is creepy, but my Birdhaus cab is over at the guitarist's house, where we practice. Good thing, too...it's got speakers on three sides and ports on the other. Put that thing in a room and it'd be like an omnidirectional dream receptor. On Duke's end, that probably works about like an insect's compound eye. Panoramic surveillance.

In fact, the only speaker in the room where I was sleeping was my little early 80s Peavey Audition 20 guitar amp. How'd he tap into that?

 

[steubig]

i’m starting to think that duke’s avatar was trying to tell you all to stop micro-dosing.

 

[Al Kraft]

i’m starting to think that duke’s avatar was trying to tell you all to stop micro-dosing.

Either that or try half a pill more tomorrow.

 

[steubig]

 

[staccatogrowl]

.. you.. revealed my secret ability to enter people's dreams and give them.. glimpses of future conversations..

Wow, I wasn't going to say anything about the dream I just had where you were offering me to be a beta tester for your newly revised Hathor 212, but now that you mention it, I accept!

 

[Lowendtech]

Wow, I wasn't going to say anything about the dream I just had where you were offering me to be a beta tester for your newly revised Hathor 212, but now that you mention it, I accept!

Wait.... revised H212?

 

[Dominick C.]

SXSW gig last night on top of a skyscraper in downtown Austin.

 

[fig]

Duke, given your Hathor 1203 design specs, what wattage would you recommend to take full advantage of your intended design capabilities?

Hathor 1203: 4 or 8 ohms; 94db; 500 watts

It's stuck in my head that lower sensitivity designs will require more power, so I'd figure, maybe, 600 watts for one Hathor cab. Unless the lower sensitivity is already accounted for, making 500 watts the value that brings out the full capabilities of your design.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke, given your Hathor 1203 design specs, what wattage would you recommend to take full advantage of your intended design capabilities?

I think an amp rated at five hundred watts, not driven into clipping, is safe. You can use a bigger amp (and many do), but be careful.

I realize some manufacturers who use the same or similar (stock or custom Kappalite) woofers have higher power handling specs. Maybe they are right, but I don't feel comfortable claiming more than 500 watts. Eminence actually rates the Kappalite 3012LF at 450 watts; my slightly higher number is my way of saying "it's okay to use this cab with an amp rated at 500 watts."

 

[McFarlin]

About to be dropped-off on the edge of this. I think the car can get close, but it'll be at least one block carrying the Changeling 212, with bass, WD-800, and a Nano+ board strapped to my torso.

Another day to be thankful the parents said "no" to drums.

 

[3rdcurve]

Question for Duke:

With your Hathor/Changeling cabs - when the “grindy” switch is active and the “high cut” is also engaged (3.5k Hz), are the 3” mids still being utilized or is all of the output coming from the 12 at that point?

 

[fig]

Thanks for the fast response and clarification.

The question was on offshoot of something I realized last night when I had a bottle in front of me (not to be confused with a frontal lobotomy ).

I have two Hathor 1203's on order (one is a Tall) and they are both 8 ohms. With the 8 ohm cabs, I'll never, ever be able to run singly, or paired, the Hathor to it's full 500 watt design capabilities and goodness with my 800 watt amp.

Through my ignorance, I'm shortchanging what your cabs are fully capable of giving. Another way of looking at it is, I've bought a 500 watt cab that that will only ever give 400 watts worth of bass. Again, my own ignorance.

Is it too late in my order's build to request the 4 ohm version? That way, I can run a single cab to the full capability. Most of my gigs would be covered by a single 500 watt cab, which appeals to me in my advancing age LOL.

If the 8 ohm speakers and crossover are already committed to my builds, that's absolutely fine.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

With your Hathor/Changeling cabs - when the “grindy” switch is active and the “high cut” is also engaged (3.5k Hz), are the 3” mids still being utilized or is all of the output coming from the 12 at that point?

The 3" mids are still active with the "high cut" engaged. They contribute to the grindy and also improve dispersion. The "high cut" just rolls off the top end of the 3" mids.

Is it too late in my order's build to request the 4 ohm version? That way, I can run a single cab to the full capability.

Eminence has discontinued the 4 ohm version of the Kappalite 3012LF. But the difference between 400 watts into the 8 ohm cab and 500 watts into the 4 ohm cab is almost exactly one decibel... perceptible, but not by much. And if we factor in the "grindy" switch, the 8 ohm 3012LF has a bigger upper-mid peak, so it will actually be slightly louder in the grindy zone.

Since the 4 ohm version of the Kappalite 3012LF was smoother on top, it was arguably a better woofer for the Thunderchild cabs. I can get there with the 8 ohm version, but it requires an additional response-smoothing filter.

For anyone who has a cab with the 4 ohm 3012LF, FYI Eminence will do a 3012LF in 4 ohms through their "custom shop". The surcharge is 13% over retail. So I can still get a replacement if there's a warranty claim, or you can if the cab is out of warranty.

 

[3rdcurve]

The 3" mids are still active with the "high cut" engaged. They add to the grindy and also improve dispersion.

Thanks Duke!

 

[Al Kraft]

I think an amp rated at five hundred watts, not driven into clipping, is safe. You can use a bigger amp (and many do), but be careful.

I realize some manufacturers who use the same or similar (stock or custom Kappalite) woofers have higher power handling specs. Maybe they are right, but I don't feel comfortable claiming more than 500 watts. Eminence actually rates the Kappalite 3012LF at 450 watts; my slightly higher number is my way of saying "it's okay to use this cab with an amp rated at 500 watts."

My experience with my 8 Ohm C112T has been that an 800 Watt @4 Ohm head like a GK or Mesa 800/WD series has the headroom and power to really bring that cab alive. The GK 500 series stuff seems to have a little more in reserve to drive the cab at 8 Ohms than does something like a TH500. I know my MB200 had to work way too hard and I suspect an ELF or anything less than at least 250-300 Watts won't get you the absolute best Duke's cabs can offer. While tone doesn't suffer at lower Wattage, you need some horsepower to get tone and higher volume.

I'm not sure how big a deal it is in practice, but when I only open two ports I do one high and one low to perhaps help with thermal flow and I figure it may better balance the load on the woofer cone. I could easily be off base on both those two points, but it makes me feel better when I am really feeding the cab a lot of Watts. After Duke stops laughing maybe he can tell us why that's probably not all that important, or worse yet, not at all helpful.

 

[mexicanyella]

I don't know how relevant this is, given that what I have is a Birdhaus cab, but my cab's four Faital 8PR200 (total 800 watts power handling) speakers sound pretty great to me driven by a mere 210 watts. I think I'm using pretty much all of the 210 watts, since I get pretty hard into the power amp's DDT circuitry (DDT "compression" LED lights up on most of the low notes) unless I'm playing softly. In a few song sections I really dig in to get some "gnar," though, because I am playing rock stuff that goes well with dirty P-bass.

Anyway, in this setting my decades-old underpowered 3-rackspace Peavey amp still vibrates stuff off of the basement shelf If I'm not careful, I like the sound of the DDT kicking in and lending a touch of extra compressed feel when driven hard, and even though the speakers should be loafing in this scenario, it seems to sound full and lively. I would think 400 watts into a 500-watt rated cab ought to sound pretty big and the slight mismatch wouldn't be something to worry about...?

(But someday I'd like to try a 500+ watt amp through my cab, I'll admit...)

 

[fourstr00]

I just got home from a 200 person show, using a single Hathor and a 200 watt head. The volume knob maybe got to 4 and it sounded great.

I must be doing something wrong.

 

[slagheap]

fwiw, at gigs i run 2 8 ohm H1203 ( original single port design - the best, ) stacked on an aurlex ( sp? ) with d800 on top. kicks huge butt at moderate volume. head is set at 2 ohms thinking it might save the drivers were i to get too frisky, though i am never a blaster. very uncool to play too loud. have 4 ohm H1506 on order.