AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[monsterthompson]

I live to serve. Monsterthompson, where in LA are you? I'm out on the westside. I could possibly do something late afternoon/early evening out here. I'm trying to avoid hauling gear as much as possible as I'm rehabbing a herniated disc.

I'm in Hollywood. I've got a Monique and Crown XLS here. I'd be happy to hop on the 10 and schlep my cab and a head your way. My neighbors tolerate a bit of volume, but if you've got a place to turn up a little, that might be a better option. I'm a 9-5 guy and today isn't going to work. The holiday next weekend might also present a roadblock delay.

Since the 1203 was on my short list, I hope I don't fall in love with yours


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[DukeLeJeune]

The 3012lf is 'only' 496cc? That's pretty good by comparison to the Deltalite II, Faital 12PR300, etc.

How much difference does 50cc of Vd make? I'd like to know.

Different manufacturers uses different yardsticks, so comparing Vd often takes a bit of compensation before we can make an apples-to-apples comparison. Alex lists the Vd of the Deltalite II at 255 cc and the 12PR300 at 241 cc, but if we measure the Faital's Vd using Eminence's yardstick, we only get about 141 cc (I can walk through the arithmetic for anyone who's interested). What we don't know is, what formula or protocol Alex uses to arrive at his figure of 550 cc.

That being said, I don't think his woofer is going to be in danger of fartout under normal use, nor is mine. Which means you have to exercise reasonable caution because fartout can be a useful early warning that you're starting to push the cab too hard.

More puzzling to me is Alex's combination of 37 Hz low end and 97 dB pistonic efficiency in a ballpark two cubic foot box. He doesn't specify how far down the cab is at 37 Hz. Either he's a much better designer than I am, or we're measuring with different yardsticks.

Eyeballing the photo Alex posted on his website, my money's on the driver being a custom Kappalite variant. I see milling to the frame that I've only seen on Eminence drivers; the front gasket is the one Eminence now uses; the exposed lead wires look like those on the Definimax; and the surround and how it attaches to the cone are identical to my Kappalites. I'm also seeing a custom cone (probably a hard paper), smaller dustcap (good choice), and expect to also find a more compliant suspension system and a custom (aluminum?) voice coil. He might also have a Faraday ring in the motor to get that top end extension up to 4 kHz, given the inductance of a long voice coil, or maybe he uses some other inductance-reducing technique. So I'm sure it's a superb woofer by any yardstick.

I expect Alex's cab to be clearly more efficient, but I'd be surprised if its low-end extension outclasses mine by as much as his specs seem to predict.

And of course I invite Alex to post and clear up any misconceptions I may have or errors I may have made.

 

[nostatic]

I'm in Hollywood. I've got a Monique and Crown XLS here. I'd be happy to hop on the 10 and schlep my cab and a head your way. My neighbors tolerate a bit of volume, but if you've got a place to turn up a little, that might be a better option. I'm a 9-5 guy and today isn't going to work. The holiday next weekend might also present a roadblock delay.

Since the 1203 was on my short list, I hope I don't fall in love with yours


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

I've got Monique/Minnie so no need to schlep your amp, I'd say just the cab. Let me know what day works. I'm doing a rehearsal at my place Mon night, have a gig Wed night at TRiP. I'm free Thu aft/evening at this point.

 

[monsterthompson]

Cool. I was thinking of bringing my Mesa Buster. It's the polar opposite of Mo and my head of choice with the Barefaced right now. I'm curious how other players sound through it. Listening vs playing can be very different.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[DukeLeJeune]

While I'm guessing that the following question has already been asked and answered, if so I surely can't find it:

Duke, what is the tonal difference, if any, between a Hathor 1203 and a TC112-8 with the "grindy" switch engaged? Or do I have that backward, and it is now only the Hathor series that has the smooth/grindy option?

MM

They both have the switch, but its effect is greater in the 1203.

The Hathor 1203 has more a bit more grindy than the TC112 because I overlap the woofer and cone midrange a bit. I don't feel comfortable bringing the compression driver in the TC112 down low enough to overlap, and even if I did, my gut feeling is that's not something you want from a horn, even a pretty good one.

 

[dmrogers]

Well, I placed my order last Monday for a pair of 1203 cabs!

After a good bit of communication with Todd (Nostatic) and Duke, I decided to go for it. I'm pretty excited about getting a couple of these cabs and see what kind of tone I can put together. I'm happy with my rig, just trying new stuff (hey, the kids are grown and out of school), and I'm really looking forward to 25 pound cabs!

I ordered a Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 last week for a light weight rehearsal head. I'll be keeping my other heads and plan to do my regular gig with Monique paired with the 1203s. But I will be trying the cabs out with the TH500, Thunderfunk 750A & 550B and Monique.

Should be some fun!

 

[nostatic]

well this doesn't suck

Just a quick and dirty listen but it is about how I figured it would be. More support down low with the TC112-8, more distinct midrange voice with the H1203. The H1203 is more "my sound" but the pair of them is pretty spectacular. When I get some time later in the week I'll compare the TC112/H1203 to the pair of H1203s, and I've got a gig Wed so I'll either take just the TC112 or that and the H1203.

 

[5StringPocket]

Nice pair!

 

[MarkA]

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the half-and-half stack vs. the homogenous stack. Which one will be more sonically nutritious? I'm staying tuned.

 

[LeonD]

....When I get some time later in the week I'll compare the TC112/H1203 to the pair of H1203s....

I feel a similar situation but in reverse. I'm playing a TC115-8 and would like something smaller for those really, really tight gigs. Or something I can add to what I have for when one cab is not enough.

Duke mentioned adding a TC112-8 for more of the same sound. But I wonder if adding a H1203 wouldn't bring some complementary magic to the table. Nostatic, I'm looking forward to hear how your "mismatched" pair work out.

 

[maisbass]

well this doesn't suck

Well it sure looks damn sexy!

 

[nostatic]

So some preliminary data. We rehearsed a new lineup in my living room last night - rather unheard of for this band but the set on Wednesday will be stuff that some of us have never played and others that the ensemble has never done. Anywho, I ran the pair at first, then just ran the TC112. When I first disconnected the H1203 (which was sitting on top of the TC112) I heard some of the mids go away. I decided to ignore it and soon found that the sound was fine in the mix. I still psychologically prefer the present upper mids, but not clear I need them.

I think this one may be just the TC112 - but I lost track. The drums are a cajon with kick pedal, snare, and hi-hat. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

My take so far is that TC112-H1203 is a nice mix. Get a bit deeper lows, also get some of that upper mid bite. I need to compare the stacks directly but my sonic memory says the pair of the H1203 goes more for the throat and has a bit more punch.

 

[SuperFunkyPete]

So some preliminary data. We rehearsed a new lineup in my living room last night - rather unheard of for this band but the set on Wednesday will be stuff that some of us have never played and others that the ensemble has never done. Anywho, I ran the pair at first, then just ran the TC112. When I first disconnected the H1203 (which was sitting on top of the TC112) I heard some of the mids go away. I decided to ignore it and soon found that the sound was fine in the mix. I still psychologically prefer the present upper mids, but not clear I need them.

I think this one may be just the TC112 - but I lost track. The drums are a cajon with kick pedal, snare, and hi-hat. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

My take so far is that TC112-H1203 is a nice mix. Get a bit deeper lows, also get some of that upper mid bite. I need to compare the stacks directly but my sonic memory says the pair of the H1203 goes more for the throat and has a bit more punch.

I'm GASing for a Hathor 1203 to go with the TC112v2 that is currently on its way to me. If it all works out well, I'll sell the Berg CN112 I'm mostly using and replace it with the Hathor and have a great mix'n'match setup. Thanks Nostatic for all your input.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

So some preliminary data...

Thanks for taking the time, and for the clip!

If the opportunity presents itself, and if it's not a hassle, and if it wouldn't step on anybody's toes, I'm curious how the TC112.8 would do for keys in "hifi" mode (top switch up, bottom switch down). Should also be pretty decent for playback of recorded music in that mode. I mention this because I had "multirole cab" in mind when designing the Thunderchild series, whereas the Hathors are pretty much dedicated bass cabs.

 

[nostatic]

I'll run my Nord through it this weekend. I would do it at the gig but my keyboard player wants to use it so I'll just be focusing on the bass thing...

Now that you mention the switches, which is which in which position? On the H1203 I run both up which I think is full-range and "aggressive".

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I'll run my Nord through it this weekend. I would do it at the gig but my keyboard player wants to use it so I'll just be focusing on the bass thing...

Now that you mention the switches, which is which in which position? On the H1203 I run both up which I think is full-range and "aggressive".

The switchology is the same, in that "all up" is loudest (most extended) highs + loudest (most aggressive) mids.

 

[maisbass]

Thanks for taking the time, and for the clip!

If the opportunity presents itself, and if it's not a hassle, and if it wouldn't step on anybody's toes, I'm curious how the TC112.8 would do for keys in "hifi" mode (top switch up, bottom switch down). Should also be pretty decent for playback of recorded music in that mode. I mention this because I had "multirole cab" in mind when designing the Thunderchild series, whereas the Hathors are pretty much dedicated bass cabs.

I play a korg r3 on my gig as well. Basically synth bass, swells, and some filter pads as well for some of the dance music we do. I can tell you this Duke, the TC112 v1 absolutely sleighs with my synth. I get thunderous lows and crisp highs with it. I actually was getting more bottom than I needed with some of my synth bass patches, so I wound up using my fdeck hpf to cut some of the lows on certain dance patches.

I will try to bring it to my office and test it with my Midas Pro 2 and see how it does. Probably won't be able to do that until next week.

 

[nostatic]

The switchology is the same, in that "all up" is loudest (most extended) highs + loudest (most aggressive) mids.

That's interesting because I think I liked the TC112 with the upper switch up (extended highs) and the lower switch down (less aggressive). Iirc, the aggressive mid switch on the TC was a bit congested for my taste, while the H1203 is just good and snarling. I chalk that up to the difference between the horn and the 3" paper cone. You really can't get those two to respond the same in the mids. Then again I could be misremembering. Wouldn't be the first time...

I'll do more testing once I'm clear of tomorrow's gig. Tonight is woodshedding and trying to learn the lead vocals for Slippin' Into Darkness

 

[DukeLeJeune]

That's interesting because I think I liked the TC112 with the upper switch up (extended highs) and the lower switch down (less aggressive). Iirc, the aggressive mid switch on the TC was a bit congested for my taste, while the H1203 is just good and snarling. I chalk that up to the difference between the horn and the 3" paper cone. You really can't get those two to respond the same in the mids. Then again I could be misremembering. Wouldn't be the first time...

I'll do more testing once I'm clear of tomorrow's gig. Tonight is woodshedding and trying to learn the lead vocals for Slippin' Into Darkness

On the Hathor 1203, the lower switch (the "midrange smoother" switch) affects both the woofer and the mids. On the Thunderchild, it affects only the woofer - the filtering on the mid is unaffected by that switch. My guess is that the additional midrange contribution of the cone mid in the Hathor is what gives it a bit better clarity with the switch in the more aggressive position. Thanks for your observations - I hadn't noticed that!

 

[pkstone]

On the Hathor 1203, the lower switch (the "midrange smoother" switch) affects both the woofer and the mids. On the Thunderchild, it affects only the woofer - the filtering on the mid is unaffected by that switch. My guess is that the additional midrange contribution of the cone mid in the Hathor is what gives it a bit better clarity with the switch in the more aggressive position. Thanks for your observations - I hadn't noticed that!

Duke, is that true for the 4-ohm Thunderchild as well? Putting the bottom switch down almost sounds like it's shutting off the horn.