AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[DukeLeJeune]

Duke, is that true for the 4-ohm Thunderchild as well? Putting the bottom switch down almost sounds like it's shutting off the horn.

Good ears - you are correct! In the original 4-ohm Thunderchild 112, the bottom switch is a "tweeter killswitch", while the top switch is the regular top-end rolloff switch. I installed the tweeter killswitch because I had seen (and been unnerved by) so many "I hate tweeters" threads and posts. Well it turns out that people who hate tweeters are smart enough not to pay a premium price for a cab with a fancy one, so in practice I doubt that anyone ever used it. I eventually stopped installing it at the same time that I switched over to the baby butt-cheeks horn.

 

[nostatic]

On the Hathor 1203, the lower switch (the "midrange smoother" switch) affects both the woofer and the mids. On the Thunderchild, it affects only the woofer - the filtering on the mid is unaffected by that switch. My guess is that the additional midrange contribution of the cone mid in the Hathor is what gives it a bit better clarity with the switch in the more aggressive position. Thanks for your observations - I hadn't noticed that!

Take it with a salt lick, as one man's "congested" is another man's "fat, punchy mids"

I'm just trying to decide what to gig tomorrow. I think I want to try the TC112/H1203 stack. Overkill for the room, but I think even at lower volumes it'll have a really nice bottom. But that H1203 is really right in my freakin' wheelhouse sonically. I've been running Monique flat and my basses flat with great results. I know some don't really care about that, but for me I want the rig to sound ideal with everything flat and then just use the eq either as an effect or to deal with a crappy room. If I've got to eq to get my initial sound, then I have less to work with.

Seriously - I can't think of anything to change on the H1203. Unless it could make coffee for me...

 

[Stranger Danger]

I can't wait to get my 1203s!

 

[steubig]

Well it turns out that people who hate tweeters are smart enough not to pay a premium price for a cab with a fancy one, so in practice I doubt that anyone ever used it.

well, i like the "kill switch,"as it gives me more potential flavors/colors. i don't use it often, but it's nice to have.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

well, i like the "kill switch,"as it gives me more potential flavors/colors. i don't use it often, but it's nice to have.

Obviously I've underestimated its usefulness... thanks for letting me know!

 

[dmrogers]

Take it with a salt lick, as one man's "congested" is another man's "fat, punchy mids"

I'm just trying to decide what to gig tomorrow. I think I want to try the TC112/H1203 stack. Overkill for the room, but I think even at lower volumes it'll have a really nice bottom. But that H1203 is really right in my freakin' wheelhouse sonically. I've been running Monique flat and my basses flat with great results. I know some don't really care about that, but for me I want the rig to sound ideal with everything flat and then just use the eq either as an effect or to deal with a crappy room. If I've got to eq to get my initial sound, then I have less to work with.

Seriously - I can't think of anything to change on the H1203. Unless it could make coffee for me...

This is what I am looking forward to. It sounds like the 1203 with the switches and the port plug gives you some options.

With all this talk about the 1203, I'm really getting ready to try them!

 

[steubig]

Obviously I've underestimated its usefulness... thanks for letting me know!

warning, i am a bit of an anomaly.

 

[g4string]

Question y'all......would you rather [own];

a v1 TC112 and a TC212

-or-

pair of 1203's????



My logic is TC112 for rehearsals and small gigs. TC212 for larger work. Same would apply to the 1203 stack. 1 for rehearsals, 2 for gigs.

I use a TH500 for amplification. Although, I've been thinking about getting a GK MB800 for some grind. I'm kinda wondering if it's best to keep the 'blank canvas' approach with cabs and colour with amps. Or perhaps I would like/need some baked in colour. My old DB112 pair kicked a** at volume with the TH500. At lower volumes, the TC112 kicked better. Although, with some grind; the TC112 sounded pretty good too. However, a pair of DB112's was a bit more agressive than the TC series stuff. This is where the GK MB500 comes in. I'm kinda thinking the GK through a TC112 [and TC212] would give some of that agressive grind but with out the low end bloom I really didn't like with the DB112's.

Flip side, perhaps the 1203's will give me the same grind with my TH500 as the TC112/212 speakers with GK would give me. I guess if I wanted to smooth things out, I could get a different amp. Perhaps a Puma 900?

I love the TC series stuff.....espc the 112. It's form factor is awesome!! I currently have a TC115 v1 4ohm that I'm thinking about flipping for a TC112+TC212 -or- a 1203 stack. I can/will adjust my amplification if need be to get me there tone wise. Your thoughts???

 

[dmrogers]

Question y'all......would you rather [own];

a v1 TC112 and a TC212
-or-
pair of 1203's????

My logic is TC112 for rehearsals and small gigs. TC212 for larger work. Same would apply to the 1203 stack. 1 for rehearsals, 2 for gigs.

I use a TH500 for amplification. Although, I've been thinking about getting a GK MB800 for some grind. I'm kinda wondering if it's best to keep the 'blank canvas' approach with cabs and colour with amps. Or perhaps I would like/need some baked in colour. My old DB112 pair kicked a** at volume with the TH500. At lower volumes, the TC112 kicked better. Although, with some grind; the TC112 sounded pretty good too. However, a pair of DB112's was a bit more agressive than the TC series stuff. This is where the GK MB500 comes in. I'm kinda thinking the GK through a TC112 [and TC212] would give some of that agressive grind but with out the low end bloom I really didn't like with the DB112's.

Flip side, perhaps the 1203's will give me the same grind with my TH500 as the TC112/212 speakers with GK would give me. I guess if I wanted to smooth things out, I could get a different amp. Perhaps a Puma 900?

I love the TC series stuff.....espc the 112. It's form factor is awesome!! I currently have a TC115 v1 4ohm that I'm thinking about flipping for a TC112+TC212 -or- a 1203 stack. I can/will adjust my amplification if need be to get me there tone wise. Your thoughts???

OK, here is my humble thoughts on this:

Personally, I will always go for single 112 cabs. At 58 (almost 59) with the lifelong effects of Polio, I like my gear to be as modular as possible. I have weighed all the options, and tried many of them. The single modular approach always works for me. If I need 1x12, 2x12, or 3x12 I've got the gear to drive them. I have the gear situation covered now and I like the way it is working for me.

On to the type of cab and tone:

I just ordered a TH500 AND two 1203 cabs. Why? Honestly I wanted a light solution for rehearsals and some possible use on gigs. The TH500 is one AWESOME head, and that is comparing it to a Monique/ProLITE rig and two Thunderfunk heads. I'm not saying it is better, they are just four different flavors of great! I used the TH500 at rehearsal last night with a GS112 and it rocked, however, I still sounded like me. I could use the Aguilar head and GS cabs and be totally happy. But I like Monique and I am really looking forward to using the 1203 cabs from Duke! I am quite sure I will be satisfied with Dukes cabs, and will be able to get the tone from them I want while still sounding like me. They will just be different tools to get the job done.

To this point I haven't played any cab where I wished for more low end. I have wanted more mids without excessive EQ. I think I'm gonna get that with the 1203s. My goal is to simply have a cab with more mids so I will have more options with my EQ.

Now, as far as your situation:

I would think that the 1203 cabs would be more similar to the Baer ML112 from what I have read and from talking to different folks here on TB. Didn't you gig the ML cabs? If so, you can probably assume, at least tone wise, that there is some similarity between those two makes. It sounds like the TC cabs are much smoother and rounder. Will the weight/size of a TC212 cause any challenges for you? What about the option of two TC112 cabs? Would a option like keeping your TC115 and then purchasing a pair of cabs for big gigs work? Nostatic is currently testing a 1203+TC112 combo with success. So currently he has 2x1203s and a TC112. That sounds like a good combination especially if he can use a 1203 and the TC112 without any ill effects. You have so many options to choose from. We all do. I mean really, look at the gear listed in your post and my post. That is pretty exciting!

Personally and IMO/IME, no matter what gear I use, I generally sound like me. But I am blessed to be able to afford awesome equipment, and I have fun playing out, so why not? At the level of gear we are gigging and have to choose from it's really hard to get a combination that sucks. It's just different flavors of awesome. I think that is where I am now, just mixing it up and trying out awesome gear.

I hope my ramblings help somewhat, or at least give you something to think about. Ain't it fun to gab about bass gear?

 

[MarkA]

Dug your post, dmrogers.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Question y'all......would you rather [own];

a v1 TC112 and a TC212

-or-

pair of 1203's????



My logic is TC112 for rehearsals and small gigs. TC212 for larger work. Same would apply to the 1203 stack. 1 for rehearsals, 2 for gigs.

I use a TH500 for amplification. Although, I've been thinking about getting a GK MB800 for some grind. I'm kinda wondering if it's best to keep the 'blank canvas' approach with cabs and colour with amps. Or perhaps I would like/need some baked in colour. My old DB112 pair kicked a** at volume with the TH500. At lower volumes, the TC112 kicked better. Although, with some grind; the TC112 sounded pretty good too. However, a pair of DB112's was a bit more agressive than the TC series stuff. This is where the GK MB500 comes in. I'm kinda thinking the GK through a TC112 [and TC212] would give some of that agressive grind but with out the low end bloom I really didn't like with the DB112's.

Flip side, perhaps the 1203's will give me the same grind with my TH500 as the TC112/212 speakers with GK would give me. I guess if I wanted to smooth things out, I could get a different amp. Perhaps a Puma 900?

I love the TC series stuff.....espc the 112. It's form factor is awesome!! I currently have a TC115 v1 4ohm that I'm thinking about flipping for a TC112+TC212 -or- a 1203 stack. I can/will adjust my amplification if need be to get me there tone wise. Your thoughts???

Well we will get to do a comparo pretty soon with my 1203 stack and my GK MB800 so I guess we will find out one way or another. Its going to be fun!

 

[g4string]

OK, here is my humble thoughts on this:

Personally, I will always go for single 112 cabs. At 58 (almost 59) with the lifelong effects of Polio, I like my gear to be as modular as possible. I have weighed all the options, and tried many of them. The single modular approach always works for me. If I need 1x12, 2x12, or 3x12 I've got the gear to drive them. I have the gear situation covered now and I like the way it is working for me.

On to the type of cab and tone:

I just ordered a TH500 AND two 1203 cabs. Why? Honestly I wanted a light solution for rehearsals and some possible use on gigs. The TH500 is one AWESOME head, and that is comparing it to a Monique/ProLITE rig and two Thunderfunk heads. I'm not saying it is better, they are just four different flavors of great! I used the TH500 at rehearsal last night with a GS112 and it rocked, however, I still sounded like me. I could use the Aguilar head and GS cabs and be totally happy. But I like Monique and I am really looking forward to using the 1203 cabs from Duke! I am quite sure I will be satisfied with Dukes cabs, and will be able to get the tone from them I want while still sounding like me. They will just be different tools to get the job done.

To this point I haven't played any cab where I wished for more low end. I have wanted more mids without excessive EQ. I think I'm gonna get that with the 1203s. My goal is to simply have a cab with more mids so I will have more options with my EQ.

Now, as far as your situation:

I would think that the 1203 cabs would be more similar to the Baer ML112 from what I have read and from talking to different folks here on TB. Didn't you gig the ML cabs? If so, you can probably assume, at least tone wise, that there is some similarity between those two makes. It sounds like the TC cabs are much smoother and rounder. Will the weight/size of a TC212 cause any challenges for you? What about the option of two TC112 cabs? Would a option like keeping your TC115 and then purchasing a pair of cabs for big gigs work? Nostatic is currently testing a 1203+TC112 combo with success. So currently he has 2x1203s and a TC112. That sounds like a good combination especially if he can use a 1203 and the TC112 without any ill effects. You have so many options to choose from. We all do. I mean really, look at the gear listed in your post and my post. That is pretty exciting!

Personally and IMO/IME, no matter what gear I use, I generally sound like me. But I am blessed to be able to afford awesome equipment, and I have fun playing out, so why not? At the level of gear we are gigging and have to choose from it really hard to get a combination that sucks. It's just different flavors of awesome. I think that is where I am now, just mixing it up and trying out awesome gear.

I hope my ramblings help somewhat, or at least give you something to think about. Ain't it fun to gab about bass gear?

Thanks for taking the time include your insight! One thing I forgot to add was one benefit of going the TC112 + TC212 is no matter what cab I bring I'm driving at 4ohms. I don't know if the 4ohm v1 TC112 can truly handle all of what a 500 micro has on draught. However, it's nice having that extra headroom umph at 500w when using a single 112 at 4 ohms than being contriscted to 250w if using a single 112 at 8ohms.

And ya, I used to rock the ML112's. However too much upper mid gank for me. Although the highs and lows were spectacular. I switched to a pair of DB112's, more my sound. Mids were where I like em. However, a little too bloomy down low. I'm trying to find a cab that has what I like about both cabs. Both cabs were used with my TH500. The TC112 and TC115 have spectacular lows and highs, but they're a tad too smooth in the mids. They lack that low mid punch of the DB112's coupled with that little bit of upper mid bite. I just a little worried that the 1203's are all upper mid bite with out the low mid push.

 

[g4string]

Well we will get to do a comparo pretty soon with my 1203 stack and my GK MB800 so I guess we will find out one way or another. Its going to be fun!

Oh yah, that's right. The 60° Iowa weather is freezing my brain.

 

[dmrogers]

Thanks for taking the time include your insight! One thing I forgot to add was one benefit of going the TC112 + TC212 is no matter what cab I bring I'm driving at 4ohms. I don't know if the 4ohm v1 TC112 can truly handle all of what a 500 micro has on draught. However, it's nice having that extra headroom umph at 500w when using a single 112 at 4 ohms than being contriscted to 250w if using a single 112 at 8ohms.

And ya, I used to rock the ML112's. However too much upper mid gank for me. Although the highs and lows were spectacular. I switched to a pair of DB112's, more my sound. Mids were where I like em. However, a little too bloomy down low. I'm trying to find a cab that has what I like about both cabs. Both cabs were used with my TH500. The TC112 and TC115 have spectacular lows and highs, but they're a tad too smooth in the mids. They lack that low mid punch of the DB112's coupled with that little bit of upper mid bite. I just a little worried that the 1203's are all upper mid bite with out the low mid push.

What you mentioned about the low mid punch and upper mid bite is what I am hoping for with the 1203. I think it is going to work beautifully. Something to keep in mind with the 1203 is that it has two switches to use for minor adjustments. I spoke with Duke and Todd about them. From what I understand, one is a high roll-off switch and the other is a "smoother" switch. Two more ways to adjust your tone!

I spent a good deal of time listening to Nostatic and steubig's audio clips. With a good set of headphones, you can get a pretty good idea of the tonal options. I certainly think I can work with them easily. Especially when you factor in the 25 pound weight!

Grab some phones and check these out:
Nostatic's audio clips
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Passinwind]

Thanks for taking the time, and for the clip!

If the opportunity presents itself, and if it's not a hassle, and if it wouldn't step on anybody's toes, I'm curious how the TC112.8 would do for keys in "hifi" mode (top switch up, bottom switch down). Should also be pretty decent for playback of recorded music in that mode. I mention this because I had "multirole cab" in mind when designing the Thunderchild series, whereas the Hathors are pretty much dedicated bass cabs.

Not quite what you asked Duke, but I just finished up an open mic house band gig where I shared my V1 TC112AF with an outstanding young keyboard player, who went into my aux input with no EQ beyond the HPF. I sat out for a few tunes just to enjoy the killer sound and try to suss any enhancements I might be able to throw at my DIY amp. He's currently a college masters candidate, but you can probably expect a call from him in a year or two...Link Removed

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Thanks for taking the time include your insight! One thing I forgot to add was one benefit of going the TC112 + TC212 is no matter what cab I bring I'm driving at 4ohms. I don't know if the 4ohm v1 TC112 can truly handle all of what a 500 micro has on draught. However, it's nice having that extra headroom umph at 500w when using a single 112 at 4 ohms than being contriscted to 250w if using a single 112 at 8ohms.

The 4-ohm TC112 is at a funny point with 500w micros.

The G-K's have the "biggest" watts of any of the current crop, IME. The MB500 had almost enough power and headroom to drive my v1 TC112 to full volume, but not quite. I rejected it in favour of the MB800, because the limiter on the 500 sounded really bad when it kicked in on big peaks, and it did so when the 112 still had some reserves left.

However, I have to be careful with the MB800: it has enough power to hurt the cab if you're not careful. Similar deal with smaller, more woofer-friendly output of the Genz Streamliners- the 600 was short of beans, while the 900 was just a little much.

Ditto with the Aggie TH500. Just barely loud enough for a single 3012 woofer, but definitely not enough for a pair.

Ironically, I no longer play with the band where I needed that last 10% out of my TC112, and could probably get by with an MB500. Still, the MB800 is a super easy carry, and has the advantage that it can drive literally any cab or stack to perfection on big gigs: a TC212, a pair of 1203's, a rented 8*10...

I guess that in the end, it all comes down to how loud you need to play, and how good you are at exercising self-restraint.

...And ya, I used to rock the ML112's. However too much upper mid gank for me. Although the highs and lows were spectacular. I switched to a pair of DB112's, more my sound. Mids were where I like em. However, a little too bloomy down low. I'm trying to find a cab that has what I like about both cabs. Both cabs were used with my TH500. The TC112 and TC115 have spectacular lows and highs, but they're a tad too smooth in the mids. They lack that low mid punch of the DB112's coupled with that little bit of upper mid bite. I just a little worried that the 1203's are all upper mid bite with out the low mid push.

The TH500 is pretty coloured, and a little dark/congested up top for some people's tastes, depending on how you drive the AGC circuit.

OTOH, the MB500/800 are more bright/hi-fi than grindy, like a poor man's Puma. If your definition of the "G-K grind" is running an RB-series head into the rails, you might be disappointed by the TC/MB pairing.

A 1203 stack might be a better bet, from what Duke, nostatic and others are saying. Nearly the same low end as the TC, still nice and fat/round down there, and a more distortion-friendly upper-mid bite.

The 1203's power handling is a little lower, too, making it a perfect match with the TH500 for single-cab gigs...

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Another thought: there's more to the TC/Hathor comparison than frequency response.

The TC212 apparently has a little more edge available than the v1 112 in the upper mids. But it's still going to be relentlessly clean and hi-fi.

The original Hathor 1544 was designed for a little more of what KJung calls the "top of cone sound".

Duke and others will have to chime in on how much of that character made it into the 1203, but if you want to hear a bit of paper cone breakup (like you probably get when you drive your Bergies hard), the little Hathor might be just the ticket.

 

[maisbass]

Question y'all......would you rather [own];

a v1 TC112 and a TC212
-or-
pair of 1203's????

My logic is TC112 for rehearsals and small gigs. TC212 for larger work. Same would apply to the 1203 stack. 1 for rehearsals, 2 for gigs.

Well there is only one thing to do… Do it the talk bass way and get them all! LOL!

Seriously though, I'm using the same approach. I have a TC112 v1 that quite honestly, handle all my gigs, and rehearsals. I mainly pair it with my Glockenklang Blue Soul or pair it with my Read pre/Crest pro lite setup. This is basically my cab of choice when I'm looking to carry one speaker, and load in and out of the gig quickly as possible. It handles a lot of power, and can easily handle a 500w micro, but as previously stated, you probably would want something with a bit more wattage to feed the TC with clean power. However, I am very cautious when I use it with my crest pro lite because that puts out some mega watts. User beware!!

I'm also waiting on a pair of 1203's I have had on order (hopefully shipping soon; fingers crossed). Even though the TC112 will cover just about all my gigs; it obviously cannot move the air that two 112 cabs can do. Quite honestly, I hate carrying two cabs, that is why I never bought a 2nd ML112. Too big and heavy. Yeah I know, pretty pathetic considering what I used to carry years ago. I think we are all getting spoiled by these micro heads and cabs now!

I gig with two Berg AE112's a lot with my Monique/minnie setup, but even the Bergs are a PITA at times to cart. But I still wanted to be able to use two cabs with my Monique/Minnie setup for some of my larger venues that I play at. It seems like the Hathor 1203's will satisfy all my needs. Light, compact, easy to move, and close to the TC112 sound. If they are a bit mid forward, I can always eq that out anyway, just as I do with my bergs.

 

[tombowlus]

Another thought: there's more to the TC/Hathor comparison than frequency response.

The TC212 apparently has a little more edge available than the v1 112 in the upper mids. But it's still going to be relentlessly clean and hi-fi.

The original Hathor 1544 was designed for a little more of what KJung calls the "top of cone sound".

Duke and others will have to chime in on how much of that character made it into the 1203, but if you want to hear a bit of paper cone breakup (like you probably get when you drive your Bergies hard), the little Hathor might be just the ticket.

It's really tough to try and steer someone towards the TC112/212 or the 1203, as I think it will largely come down to personal preference. With the original Hathor 1544, there were large differences in the frequency range performance of the 1544 vs the TC112 or TC115. Yes, the character of the tone, and how the cabs handled overdrive/distortion was also very different, but beyond this, the expanded lows and highs of the TC cabs versus the Hathor was very apparent.

With the new Hathor 1855 and 1203, though, Duke has brought the low end performance to a level that is on par with the power and depth of the Thunderchild cabs, but he still maintains the difference in "character." The high end is similarly expanded in the 1855 and 1203, relative to the 1544, but not quite up in the TC range. That being said, the "usable high end" (at least for my preferences) of the newer Hathor cabs is of similar range and quantity to the TC cabs (but again, with a different character).

Another difference I noted is that with the 1544, it was immediately apparent that this was a different beast. The mids were more pronounced and very textured, the lows were super tight, and it sounded very focused and controlled. By comparison, the TC cabs, with their seemingly endless frequency range (in both directions) and very smooth sonic delivery, present a very stark contrast that is apparent right out of the box. When I fired up the 1855 and 1203 for the first time, I immediately felt that these cabs were closer to the TC mark, but definitely with their own character. The midrange presence and texture that I liked about the 1544 was there, but with less congestion and a very expanded low end. That was one of the things I asked Duke if he could tweak after test-driving the 1544, and boy did he!

So, while the new Hathor cabs sound great with all kinds of effects, including overdrive, they are also very compelling solutions for players seeking a clean, articulate tone, that has a bit more "texture" going on (compared to the more pristine, smooth presentation of the TC cabs). Which option is best for you is going to depend, in large part, on your own personal preferences, and of course, how each cab sits in a mix for your band setting(s).

 

[McFarlin]

...just a little worried that the 1203's are all upper mid bite with out the low mid push.

Not sure, but I think nostatic's ML112/1203 comparison stated the 1203 had more low mid presence.