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AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

#1,841
Just for kicks I've been comparing the specs of the Faital 18HP1060 that goes into my on-order Hathor 1855 to drivers in other cabs that I'm familiar with.

If the specs from Faitial are at all close to reality, the linear displacement of this woofer in totally impressive. This driver's Vd, the linear displacement volume (aka, Xmax * the cone's surface area) is 1399 cubic centimeters.

Compare this to the Eminence Legend B810e. Certainly not a modern design, but this is basically the driver the goes into the modern Ampeg 810e cabinent. This driver has a Vd of 165.2cc, or 1321cc for an entire 8x10 fridge.

If I'm correct in assuming that the Hathor's woofer is going to be displacement limited instead of thermally limited under most conditions, this is totally mind blowing. Can this be true? A 50 pound cab with modern a modern high end woofer can move as much air as the Ampeg Fridge?
 
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#1,842
Yup. It won't deliver the punch to your chest in quite the same way, because the radiating surface is below your waist. But it will be in the same loudness ballpark, assuming you drive it with enough wattage.

It will also disperse the resultant tone far more evenly than a fridge, which suffers from beaming effects in much the same way as a guitarist's 4*12 cab. If you've ever stood in the hot spot of a guitar player's cranked Marshall stack, you know what I'm talking about...

Tone is very personal, so not everyone will agree. But I vastly prefer the articulation and tone of these modern cabs over a fridge. It's not just "all this in such a small box". At least for me, it's the best possible tone, period.
 
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#1,844
Handyman said:
If the specs from Faitial are at all close to reality, the linear displacement of this woofer in totally impressive. This driver's Vd, the linear displacement volume (aka, Xmax * the cone's surface area) is 1399 cubic centimeters...
Click to expand...

Faital uses what I think is an optimistic yardstick for x-max, and then turns around and uses a conservative yardstick for cone area. Converting to Eminence-style measurements, I get a Vd of 1124 cubic centimeters.

Handyman said:
If I'm correct in assuming that the Hathor's woofer is going to be displacement limited instead of thermally limited under most conditions, this is totally mind blowing. Can this be true? A 50 pound cab with modern a modern high end woofer can move as much air as the Ampeg Fridge?
Click to expand...

If we look at the lesser of excursion-limited or power-handling-limited SPL, the Fridge can go louder north of 90 Hz, and the Hathor 1855 can go louder from 90 Hz down to the mid-30's (below that the slower rolloff of the Fridge overtakes 1855 because we're well below its tuning frequency).

However because the Fridge's response is -3 dB probably in the mid 70's, instead of in the upper 40's, it's not trying to be as loud as the 1855 down low, so it doesn't run up against its mechanical limits. Thus the Fridge will still go louder, though the 1855's pair of mids coming in around 1 kHz or so means the discrepancy isn't quite as much as a woofers-to-woofer SPL comparison would lead you to believe.

A comparison that looks better for the big Faital would be against the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF, which is itself an awesome woofer especially for the weight and price (the Faital weighs and costs close to twice as much). They have approximately the same efficiency and low-end extensions, so in that sense it's closer to apples-to-apples... well, except that it's an 18" apple against a 15" apple.

steve_rolfeca said:
Yup. It won't deliver the punch to your chest in quite the same way, because the radiating surface is below your waist.
Click to expand...

Yes, it punches you below the waist. Food for thought.
 
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#1,846
DukeLeJeune said:
If we look at the lesser of excursion-limited or power-handling-limited SPL, the Fridge can go louder north of 90 Hz, and the Hathor 1855 can go louder from 90 Hz down to the mid-30's (below that the slower rolloff of the Fridge overtakes 1855 because we're well below its tuning frequency).
Click to expand...

Thanks, that makes sense. So higher than 90Hz the woofer is going to be thermally limited instead of excursion limited?

Given this thing's thermal limits, I think I'm going to have one hell of a time cooking the voice coil. :)

Can't wait to get this thing. Its looking like if it won't get loud enough for me, its because I'm already deaf.
 
#1,847
JBNeedsBeer said:
Still sounds to me like one of the coolest cabs on the market :bassist:
Click to expand...
Thank you. If it belongs in the coolest cabs class, we have Mike Arnopol and greenboy to thank. They set the bar.

Handyman said:
Thanks, that makes sense. So higher than 90Hz the woofer is going to be thermally limited instead of excursion limited?

Given this thing's thermal limits, I think I'm going to have one hell of a time cooking the voice coil. :)

Can't wait to get this thing. Its looking like if it won't get loud enough for me, its because I'm already deaf.
Click to expand...

Given that it's not excursion-limited, it won't fartout when hit with 2400 watt peaks at any frequency down to 46 Hz. That would translate to 127-130 dB ballpark peaks all the way down to 46 Hz. Now in practice there will probably be some thermal losses at that power level, but it's still gonna get pretty loud. I am NOT claiming 2400 watts power handling, just saying that I think it can handle peaks in that ballpark.

The lack of fartout does mean that, at a really loud gig, you gotta listen for signs of distress, like thermal compression. I don't know what an 18HP1060 driven to the edge sounds like.
 
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#1,848
DukeLeJeune said:
The lack of fartout does mean that, at a really loud gig, you gotta listen for signs of distress, like thermal compression. I don't know what an 18HP1060 driven to the edge sounds like.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing something like this:
"Oh my God! My ears are bleeding! My ears are bleeding!" :)

My real goal in ordering this thing was to find a cab that
- Sounds great
- Small/light enough that transporting it is somewhere under the "annoying" threshold
- Gets lough enough for any reasonably situation I'll be in. I'll enjoy not having to guess which cab configuration will be enough for a given situation.

The 1855 should be way easier to transport than my current two 1x12 rig, while being able to go way louder. Mission accomplished, I think.
 
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#1,853
JBNeedsBeer said:
Hey Duke, any updates on the new 1533?
Click to expand...

For an off-the-shelf solution, the Eminence Kappalite 3015 (non-LF) is the current front-runner.

Eminence is going to prototype a custom Kappalite variant for me whose native response would give us a more growly growl with the midrange switch set accordingly, as imo the 3015 isn't quite growly enough (compared with the 3012LF in the Hathor 1203, for example). I might make the cab switchable between "4 ohms" and "8 ohms", something I worked out a couple of years ago but never felt like the right cab had come along yet. If I do incorporate such a switch, I'll let you guys know what I did so that you can judge whether it's legitimate or not.
 
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#1,856
Shot from the office last night. The H1203/TC112 combo is killing.

31dec14-1.jpg
 
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#1,860
Count me in !!
DukeLeJeune said:
For an off-the-shelf solution, the Eminence Kappalite 3015 (non-LF) is the current front-runner.

Eminence is going to prototype a custom Kappalite variant for me whose native response would give us a more growly growl with the midrange switch set accordingly, as imo the 3015 isn't quite growly enough (compared with the 3012LF in the Hathor 1203, for example). I might make the cab switchable between "4 ohms" and "8 ohms", something I worked out a couple of years ago but never felt like the right cab had come along yet. If I do incorporate such a switch, I'll let you guys know what I did so that you can judge whether it's legitimate or not.
Click to expand...
 

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