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AudioKinesis Cabs V!!!!

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#741
" and then possibly doing a more cost-conscious version that just adds some top end to the Faital 15. "

Looking forward to hearing this design. Are we talking about the 15pro400 Faital ? I've been told this driver has the tonal qualities of the JBL K140, which is my all time fave 15.
 
#742
jnewmark said:
" and then possibly doing a more cost-conscious version that just adds some top end to the Faital 15. "

Looking forward to hearing this design. Are we talking about the 15pro400 Faital ? I've been told this driver has the tonal qualities of the JBL K140, which is my all time fave 15.
Click to expand...

Apparently I'm not the only one around here with some sort of Faital attraction...

Yes, if the cost-conscious 115 cab goes into production, it will most likely be based on the Faital 15PR400 ("cost conscious" being a relative term; it's still going to cost more than most 115s at Guitar Center).
 
#743
I'm so impressed with all these threads but let me ask a delicate question.
Can these cabs play dumb (with the right amp) if one wanted to have a somewhat muffled, old style cabinet tone?
 
#744
Jim C said:
I'm so impressed with all these threads but let me ask a delicate question.
Can these cabs play dumb (with the right amp) if one wanted to have a somewhat muffled, old style cabinet tone?
Click to expand...

That's a pretty personal thing. How dumb do you want?

The Thunderchild 112 has a "tweeter off" position, but it cuts the highs so much, that hardly anyone uses it. It might be muffled enough, it might be too much, depending on your needs.

Duke or others will chime in on this, but I seem to recall that it was not included in other models, due to lack of interest.
 
#747
steve_rolfeca said:
That's a pretty personal thing. How dumb do you want?

The Thunderchild 112 has a "tweeter off" position, but it cuts the highs so much, that hardly anyone uses it. It might be muffled enough, it might be too much, depending on your needs.

Duke or others will chime in on this, but I seem to recall that it was not included in other models, due to lack of interest.
Click to expand...

Duke mentioned discontinuing the off switch on the TC112 too. AFAIK there's still the "more relaxed" tweeter switch setting though, which I guess I should try on a gig sometime. That would be an obvious place to start on a trip to the old school.

I used my TC112 in our open mike house rig last night. There were three other bass players, so I got to listen from the audience side a lot. Sounded downright B-15-ish at times. Guess it depends on which flavor of old style cab one wants to emulate though.
 
#749
The cabinets will let the bass and amp sound shine through, so the answer is "yes". When I play a bass with flats or vintage tone through an Ampeg and plug the ports (so it is a sealed cabinet) it's VERY old school.

Conversely, a bass with growly mids through a modern amp with good definition and with ports open will give you a contemporary sound. Or you can go with a deep and bright bass (T-bird or similar) through a GK and get a very bright rock sound.

That's the beauty of Duke's cabinets - they don't add color so they can be very versatile in reproducing the color that you put in.
 
#750
steubig said:
dunno. i like having that option . . . but i already have mine, so it may not be an issue for *me*.
Click to expand...

I can't imaging turning that horn off. That really doesn't give you any sort of 'old school' thing, it just chops ALL the top end off the tone. The 'top end relax' switch is a wonderful thing though, and really does a good job of emulating the upper midrange roll-off that happens with a large bass speaker.

That being said, the top end of this cab is always clean, and SO much of the vintage tone that some love has to do IMO with the top end of a bass tone coming off the top of the woofer. I again use a different cab when I want that vibe. The port plugs do tighten up the low end, but they do nothing to the nature of the top end of the TC cabs, which is always perfectly clean (which is a good thing for many applications).

I've always had more success playing to the strengths of a cab (in this case, that pure, zero midrange distortion 'studio monitor like tone') than trying to muscle a cab into doing something that fights the designers voicing goal. IMO there.
 
#751
KJung said:
I can't imaging turning that horn off. That really doesn't give you any sort of 'old school' thing, it just chops ALL the top end off the tone.
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+1

I think your cabs are the wrong place to go looking for a muffled tone, old school or otherwise.

I spent my first 25 years as a bassist playing through cabs that would now be thought of as "old school". They were loaded with CTS, EV, Eminence, JBL, Jensen and Peavey 15's, and there wasn't a single configuration I used, that lacked for top end on-axis (up to about 5K, anyway).

If you're looking for a dark, wooly, woofy, or "old school" tone, touch, strings, muting, tone control and amplifier choice are where the action is, IMO and IME.
 
#752
steve_rolfeca said:
+1

I think your cabs are the wrong place to go looking for a muffled tone, old school or otherwise.

I spent my first 25 years as a bassist playing through cabs that would now be thought of as "old school". They were loaded with CTS, EV, Eminence, JBL, Jensen and Peavey 15's, and there wasn't a single configuration I used, that lacked for top end on-axis (up to about 5K, anyway).

If you're looking for a dark, wooly, woofy, or "old school" tone, touch, strings, muting, tone control and amplifier choice are where the action is, IMO and IME.
Click to expand...

+1 Back in the day, those EV and JBL 15's had more going on up top than most remember. Duke's roll-off switch does a pretty good job of emulating that, although again, you won't get any of that top end break-up. I guess that is what the Hathor is about for those looking for that vibe.
 
#753
Just to clarify, I meant old school as in TL606 or 2x15 w/JBL or EV drivers.
I was not thinking about speaker distortion but rather a less hi-fi tonality.
I can get somewhat close to this by rolling off the horn on my Berg HT322 but it's 100 lbs. of pure impossible to carry goodness.
 
#754
Jim C said:
Just to clarify, I meant old school as in TL606 or 2x15 w/JBL or EV drivers.
I was not thinking about speaker distortion but rather a less hi-fi tonality.
I can get somewhat close to this by rolling off the horn on my Berg HT322 but it's 100 lbs. of pure impossible to carry goodness.
Click to expand...

That HT322 voicing has much in common with the TC line of cabs ( I gigged a modular HT322, called the 's' stack for a while). That cab is very clean, very big and even down low, and has VERY little of the upper mid roughness and brightness coming out of the old JBL K140 or the EV 15 drivers we all gigged back then. Turning down the horn on the TH322 won't really help with that vibe. The 'treble relax' switch on the TC cabs WILL help you roll off the sizzle and keep a nice articulate top end, but it will stay clean, clean, clean... period.

Quite frankly, to me, a 'less hi fi tonality' is ALL about speaker distortion (i.e., that warm, somewhat rough upper mid response coming off the top of the driver). Again, Duke's Hathor seems to be designed and voiced to cop that vibe, but I haven't heard one.
 
#755
I gigged the JBL K140 for 20 years, and still do occaisionally. You are right about that rougher, brighter edge coming out of the top of the driver, and it's mostly the reason that I love it. After trying to find a lighter 215 cab back in the day, ususally loaded with Eminence speakers, I got frustrated because I could not find that same tone. It thus led to trying out cabs with tweeters, and finally to here ! I've been told by a few guys on the fEARful forum that the Faital 15pr400 has those JBL qualities. Looking forward to some comments on Duke's new 15 cab with that driver.
 
#756
jnewmark said:
I gigged the JBL K140 for 20 years, and still do occaisionally. You are right about that rougher, brighter edge coming out of the top of the driver, and it's mostly the reason that I love it. After trying to find a lighter 215 cab back in the day, ususally loaded with Eminence speakers, I got frustrated because I could not find that same tone. It thus led to trying out cabs with tweeters, and finally to here ! I've been told by a few guys on the fEARful forum that the Faital 15pr400 has those JBL qualities. Looking forward to some comments on Duke's new 15 cab with that driver.
Click to expand...

The Bear ML112/212 does a pretty good job of this also... not exactly, but pretty close when you dig in. I also very much like the LDS 3015HO builds, although Don now prefers the Faital drivers you mention for that sort of 'vintage' vibe. Seems like the Hathor will get you there also.
 
#757
Does the Hathor use the faital 15 ? Also, I seem to recall comments on the Baer stuff as having a wide bottom tone, or am I thinking of something else ? The JBl's have more of a tighter bottom tone, especially the K140.
 
#758
jnewmark said:
Does the Hathor use the faital 15 ? Also, I seem to recall comments on the Baer stuff as having a wide bottom tone, or am I thinking of something else ? The JBl's have more of a tighter bottom tone, especially the K140.
Click to expand...

Not sure about the Hathor, but lots of discussion earlier in this thread.

Baer 12's are based on a custom 3012HO driver that is smoothed to sit between the very bright and tight stock HO tone and the big, open subwoofer type low end of the the stock LF. So, kind of coming from the other way from Duke's wonderful OEM LF drivers, which he moved a bit toward the HO! I find the Baer low end very controlled.
 
#759
I remember the EV and JBL's as being pretty bright, actually.
Much brighter than "horn off" on a TC would be.

To me, the Baer ML112 have a bit more native low end than a TC112.
Both remain quite controlled if you eq in more.
 
#760
The Hathor uses the 15pr400 and two 4" mids. Tombowlus compared it to the baer for me by saying that the 1544 was had alot more in the mids, almost making the baer sound scooped in comparison (Im thinking in the 200-800hz range), the baer was bigger down low but, the hathor could be dialed in for that sound. The baer was cleaner, more pristine while the hathor got growly and dirty much easier and seemed to live for that sound. I'll have a pair of Hathors on friday and I may be getting a zoom q3hd to do my first video review. I'd really like to show off my stambaugh bass and gear to some of you guys that I've been talking to for years. This would let me have more of a face to face meeting kind of thing.
 
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