AudioKinesis Cabs V!!!!

[steve_rolfeca]

...are the sonic benefits really that great, above a high- quality 4x10??

I've got a Golight 4x10 that sounds very, very good, and it weighs 54 lbs.
Yes it's bulky, the midrange dispersion isn't the best, but it does really sound very good, and is very loud.

All of Duke's TC cabs sound:
- more open, less "congested"
- richer in the range from the open E down to the low B
- more dynamic, and less compressed on big hits
- more even from note to note
- more articulate
- more consistent (less affected by difficult venues)

Individually, the differences are pretty subtle, but collectively they add up. Plus, as you point out, these cabs aren't bulky like your 410, and they have better midrange dispersion. So on a technical level, yes, Duke's cabs really are better.

But we're talking about tone, so it's as much art as science. Your Golight has a fair amount of cone distortion at high volume, so it's going to add some "growl" of its own, that a Thunderchild doesn't provide. The low B isn't as impressive. It also compresses more at high volume. But depending on what you're after, these characteristics might be better, worse, or simply irrelevant.

In the end it all comes down to what you want. Do you have roadies? Do you have a B string to worry about? Does your favourite bass already give you all the growl you need? Do you think you'd like to hear the sound of your bass with a little more clarity? Would your drummer and the rest of your band like to hear you a little bit better?

Perhaps most importantly, does the idea of putting your current tone and technique under a magnifying glass sound inviting or intimidating?

 

[Bassist30]

Not to be a dick- but are the sonic benefits really that great, above a high- quality 4x10??

I've got a Golight 4x10 that sounds very, very good, and it weighs 54 lbs.
Yes it's bulky, the midrange dispersion isn't the best, but it does really sound very good, and is very loud.
Am I really missing out? I'm serious.

I have a AE410 Berg and my TC15wAF is surprisingly about the same size. The 410 slightly bigger. Gigging with both the TC15 to me is more articulate all around. I also like the Berg 410 better than the Goliaths. But I like the TC cabinet better than the berg. You can read Duke and Mike's post and web site. They are going in a different direction in sound and design than what has been considered the standard.

 

[thudfromafar]

I saw a band recently in which the bass player was playing thru a commercial 4x10, and a 4x8 stacked on top of it.

It sounded great.

Who knows if the Audiokinesis cabs would sound better in this band's situation... but imo, nothing was missing.

It's all about what you're after.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

My experience has been that the extra midrange energy on paper for cabinets with side by side woofers is nowhere near as much as you would expect looking at the specs of a single driver.

I think that's one of the secrets of the 'fridge - the progressive mutual cancellation in the mids and highs from the inevitably spaced-apart speakers results in a generally downward-sloping frequency response. Maybe not precisely on-axis, but enough so off-axis to dominate the perceived tonal balance. This would probably doom most attempts to build a tonally authentic "mini-fridge".

 

[Type-55]

Any comparisons between the 1544 vs TC112?
Louder, warmer,rounder,smoother, more low end etc.
I have the 112 but always favored 15's.

 

[kringle77]

Duke, most players are after the sound they hear in front of the fridge. I would love to see what you could do with a smaller fridge design. Barefaced has that coming actually but, there is no telling when it will actually come out. The added price of duty from shipping outside the country hurts too. You can get ported cabs very close to a sealed sound but, it just doesn't feel the same.

 

[IntrepidCellist]

Duke, most players are after the sound they hear in front of the fridge. I would love to see what you could do with a smaller fridge design. Barefaced has that coming actually but, there is no telling when it will actually come out. The added price of duty from shipping outside the country hurts too. You can get ported cabs very close to a sealed sound but, it just doesn't feel the same.

Pardon the French, but screw the fridge (at least the modern 810e). Too muddy, too middy in the "cardboardy" range, too congested, not enough clarity in the highs or lows. Both my bandmates and I prefer the clarity and tonal quality of the TC112... and I'm running loads of overdrive/fuzz/distortion in a heavy rock band.

Plus, it sounds great for acoustic gigs with an electric cello too!

Heck, for me, the D410XLT was far, far nicer than a fridge, even for the gigs I used to do (again, overdrive out the wazoo.)

 

[gregbackstrom]

Duke, most players are after the sound they hear in front of the fridge. I would love to see what you could do with a smaller fridge design. Barefaced has that coming actually but, there is no telling when it will actually come out. The added price of duty from shipping outside the country hurts too. You can get ported cabs very close to a sealed sound but, it just doesn't feel the same.

Whew! That's a majority I'm GLAD not to be part of! IMO, the design and proliferation of articulate bass guitar speaker cabinets has been the greatest MI achievement of the last 20 years. My only fridges stay in the kitchen where they belong!

 

[Chef]

''most players are after the sound of the fridge."

I disagree, respectfully.
ymmv, of course

 

[rpsands]

I spent some time comparing the TC115 to the Hathor 1544 in one of these threads.

Bottom line;
Hathor has slightly better vertical dispersion and horizontal dispersion up close
Hathor is a hair louder per watt
Hathor has some nice adjustment in the midrange/highs
Thunderchild seems to project into rooms better
Thunderchild has a more uniform and predictable dispersion pattern
Thunderchid can take more power
Thunderchild has more lows
Thunderchild has more top end
Thunderchild is much closer to flat

The Hathor sounds a lot like a nice high end 1x15 (say, a Bassic) with better dispersion (much) and a lot more high / mid extension.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

The "fridge" is just one of many bass tones to fit many music styles. It's more handy to have a cab that can emulate many of these instead of producing just one sound.

 

[rpsands]

''most players are after the sound of the fridge."

I disagree, respectfully.
ymmv, of course

I am not after the sound of the fridge but 9 out of 10 players I run into gigging in the wild are after the sound of an SVT -> Fridge (but can't afford it, or can't cart it).

 

[Jazzdogg]

All of Duke's TC cabs sound:
- more open, less "congested"
- richer in the range from the open E down to the low B
- more dynamic, and less compressed on big hits
- more even from note to note
- more articulate
- more consistent (less affected by difficult venues)

Individually, the differences are pretty subtle, but collectively they add up. Plus, as you point out, these cabs aren't bulky like your 410, and they have better midrange dispersion. So on a technical level, yes, Duke's cabs really are better.

But we're talking about tone, so it's as much art as science. Your Golight has a fair amount of cone distortion at high volume, so it's going to add some "growl" of its own, that a Thunderchild doesn't provide. The low B isn't as impressive. It also compresses more at high volume. But depending on what you're after, these characteristics might be better, worse, or simply irrelevant.

In the end it all comes down to what you want. Do you have roadies? Do you have a B string to worry about? Does your favourite bass already give you all the growl you need? Do you think you'd like to hear the sound of your bass with a little more clarity? Would your drummer and the rest of your band like to hear you a little bit better?

Perhaps most importantly, does the idea of putting your current tone and technique under a magnifying glass sound inviting or intimidating?

Well said!

 

[kringle77]

Yeah, I love the xlt series cabs and they really work live. I wonder if you would still get a similar sound if you low passed one side of an eden 4x10 to improve dispersion. When I do that to my NV610, the mids get less ganky and sounds more similar on and off axis. I've got my NV sitting next to my LDS 2x15( basically a duall) and even though I can eq them to sound very close, the sealed multi-10 cab still has a certain compressed thickness to it that makes it sit in it's own place within a mix. Some of the "correctly" designed cabs don't have this quality even though they actually sound better. My solution is just to use the old type of cabs and then use a low pass to fix the dispersion. Best of both worlds I think. Just my opinion and this has been depated into the ground.

 

[KJung]

I am not after the sound of the fridge but 9 out of 10 players I run into gigging in the wild are after the sound of an SVT -> Fridge (but can't afford it, or can't cart it).

You must be hanging with WAY different type of players than I do. The 'fridge' is one of the few pieces of gear that is not accepted for backline on our contract. That doesn't mean it isn't a classic and great in its own way, but other than the hard rock guys (and a few others), I and most of my jazz/pop/funk peers were never so happy to never have to play out of one of those midrangey, compressed things again when the more modern stuff emerged in the late 70's.

 

[rpsands]

Bar band scene man, it's different I see all kinds of players, all kinds of gear. Punk bands, metal bands, vintage rock bands, cover bands, stoner rock bands, etc.

I see all kinds of stuff but mostly it's cheap or guitar center chic. I saw one guy with a 4x10 loaded with BP102s he built himself, which was super cool, but by and large its fender or ampeg combos, or ridiculous racks and 8x10s/6x10s. No judgment here...most of these guys are better players than me doing their best to make it work on a shoe string budget.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Any comparisons between the 1544 vs TC112?
Louder, warmer,rounder,smoother, more low end etc.
I have the 112 but always favored 15's.

Rpsands in post #90 gives an excellent description of the Hathor 1544 vs the Thunderchild 115, and much of that is applicable. In particular, I think this kinda nails it: "The Hathor sounds a lot like a nice high end 1x15 (say, a Bassic) with better dispersion (much) and a lot more high / mid extension."

The 1544 will be significantly louder than the TC112, and I would say both warmer and rounder. Smoother, yes, at least with the midrange smoother-outer switch down. Low end... hmm, the TC112 probaby has a bit more way down low.

Despite the difference in cone diameter, theoretically they'll both hit fartout at just about the same SPL, with the TC112 having a slight advantage in displacement (gotta love those long-throw Kappalites).

The Hathor 1544 sounds more like a bass cab, but in turn is less of an all-arounder like IntrepidCellist describes.

 

[rpsands]

Something worth noting is the woofer in the Hathor 15 has a ridiculous amount of Xlim. Almost as much as a 3015LF.

I hit it *hard* with an unfiltered Markbass SD1200 with a 5-string and it didn't flinch.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

I'm leaning towards three midrange cut-outs in an L-shaped pattern, and you would use the two vertical ones or the two horizontal ones depending on your situation, and screw a plywood plug down over the unused cut-out. All would be covered by the same squarish grill.

After sleeping on it, I like the Hathor 1544 just the way it is, so I won't be changing it.

But the idea of an SVT-friendly cab is still intriguing.

Would the big SVT head work atop a 22" wide cab? I figure there would be about an inch of chassis overhang on either side, but the feet would still fit, wouldn't they? I'd much rather do a 22" wide cab than a 24" wide cab.

 

[Bmorefoozler]

After sleeping on it, I like the Hathor 1544 just the way it is, so I won't be changing it.

But the idea of an SVT-friendly cab is still intriguing.

.

It's your design man, and it's a good one. No one will faultyou for that.

Sorry, or your welcome??? , for getting the ball rolling on a small SVT cab sollution. It was simply a market niche that I didn't see a lot of players content with what is out there, and your new products seemed to line up quite well. I figured you were the man for the job.

As for the other question, that is more a question for those that actually own tube amps. Try asking Tom Bowlus or Anderbass on that one.

I think the main keys are 4 ohm, capable of consuming 3-400 watts and relatively low SPL. Sealed like low end is also proabbly a big part. I would dare also say that an upper bass low mid hump is probably also desireable. Guitar driver like top end would also intrigue most, IMO. Anyone care to add or change this list?