Avatar 3 way 15/6/tweet part 2

[ErnieD]

I use this same rig at quite a few different rooms and I've always kept gain/vol @ 11:00-noon tops. The master knob, bass knob always left of noon. So I'm still thinking it was the room and the conditions in the room that nite. Like the floor/ceiling glass wall, huge crowd sitting directly in front of our floor space. ( huge crowd never a bad thing, right ).

I think I'll take the same rig/bass back to that same room in a couple weeks again to double check. Or maybe I should try a different rig that nite to see if the room sucks my volume as well with a couple vert, stacked RS210's. I'll take the 900 and another amp head to compare if needed.

We'll see, no real biggee, as again friend said it was cool out back of room. I was just very surprised of the settings I was at on the 900 head that nite.

 

[rmars]

Well I picked up a Shuttlemax 12.2 and I have to say it's a big improvement over my Demeter pre, Crown Macro with this cab. I bought the 12.2 because I figured 600 watts would be good enough with my 4ohm cab (rated @ 400watts) and because I also own two Avatar B210 Neos that are 4 ohms each.

Well after this weekend I have to say that the TB153 is the clear winner and I will probably be selling off the B210's. However; on my louder gig I had to crank the amp to about noon on gain and pre volume and had it almost noon on the Master Volume cranked and my peak light was starting to flicker (I had set it up so the o/l light wasn't coming on). The owners manual says that's okay but it let me know I didn't have anything left in reserves.

So question is, do I go with more power or more surface area for my loud gigs?

It was definitely loud, I'm 6'4" so it's at my ankles but I wouldn't have wanted it that loud at ear level, ouch! I'm wondering if I added a second one for louder gigs if I wouldn't have to push them so hard and I could adjust for a bit more low end. Also having one at ear level it would help me control my volume better than cranking the heck out of one on the floor? Didn't really wanna haul a second cab but I'm also tired of having guitar players telling me to turn up or that they want more lowend (my B210's are great and loud but can only handle so much lows when we get that loud so I usually have to sacrifice lows for overall volume).

I know this cab is rated @ 400watts and I think the newer crossover is good for around 800watts so I don't really know if I need to be considering a Shuttlemax 9.2 or Streamliner 900? I know some of you guys use them but that seems like I would really be pushing this thing to the redline!

Thanks for any help, my brain is scrambled trying to figure this out!

 

[BurningSkies]

Well I picked up a Shuttlemax 12.2 and I have to say it's a big improvement over my Demeter pre, Crown Macro with this cab. I bought the 12.2 because I figured 600 watts would be good enough with my 4ohm cab (rated @ 400watts) and because I also own two Avatar B210 Neos that are 4 ohms each.

Well after this weekend I have to say that the TB153 is the clear winner and I will probably be selling off the B210's. However; on my louder gig I had to crank the amp to about noon on gain and pre volume and had it almost noon on the Master Volume cranked and my peak light was starting to flicker (I had set it up so the o/l light wasn't coming on). The owners manual says that's okay but it let me know I didn't have anything left in reserves.

So question is, do I go with more power or more surface area for my loud gigs?

It was definitely loud, I'm 6'4" so it's at my ankles but I wouldn't have wanted it that loud at ear level, ouch! I'm wondering if I added a second one for louder gigs if I wouldn't have to push them so hard and I could adjust for a bit more low end. Also having one at ear level it would help me control my volume better than cranking the heck out of one on the floor? Didn't really wanna haul a second cab but I'm also tired of having guitar players telling me to turn up or that they want more lowend (my B210's are great and loud but can only handle so much lows when we get that loud so I usually have to sacrifice lows for overall volume).

I know this cab is rated @ 400watts and I think the newer crossover is good for around 800watts so I don't really know if I need to be considering a Shuttlemax 9.2 or Streamliner 900? I know some of you guys use them but that seems like I would really be pushing this thing to the redline!

Thanks for any help, my brain is scrambled trying to figure this out!

More surface area gives you louder volume closer to your ears, more perceived low end and your amp works less hard.

What's to decide?

 

[NWB]

Well I picked up a Shuttlemax 12.2 and I have to say it's a big improvement over my Demeter pre, Crown Macro with this cab. I bought the 12.2 because I figured 600 watts would be good enough with my 4ohm cab (rated @ 400watts) and because I also own two Avatar B210 Neos that are 4 ohms each.

Well after this weekend I have to say that the TB153 is the clear winner and I will probably be selling off the B210's. However; on my louder gig I had to crank the amp to about noon on gain and pre volume and had it almost noon on the Master Volume cranked and my peak light was starting to flicker (I had set it up so the o/l light wasn't coming on). The owners manual says that's okay but it let me know I didn't have anything left in reserves.

So question is, do I go with more power or more surface area for my loud gigs?

It was definitely loud, I'm 6'4" so it's at my ankles but I wouldn't have wanted it that loud at ear level, ouch! I'm wondering if I added a second one for louder gigs if I wouldn't have to push them so hard and I could adjust for a bit more low end. Also having one at ear level it would help me control my volume better than cranking the heck out of one on the floor? Didn't really wanna haul a second cab but I'm also tired of having guitar players telling me to turn up or that they want more lowend (my B210's are great and loud but can only handle so much lows when we get that loud so I usually have to sacrifice lows for overall volume).

I know this cab is rated @ 400watts and I think the newer crossover is good for around 800watts so I don't really know if I need to be considering a Shuttlemax 9.2 or Streamliner 900? I know some of you guys use them but that seems like I would really be pushing this thing to the redline!

Thanks for any help, my brain is scrambled trying to figure this out!

You can probably ignore that peak light. That amp is pretty robust and I'm sure it can give a lot more. You might play with the volume/master balance a bit to keep the peak light off if it bugs you.

The cab would likely blow well before you cause any amp damage.

I doubt that the volume difference between the 600 watts of the 12.2 and the 900 watts of the 9.2 would be all that significant.

 

[NWB]

More surface area gives you louder volume closer to your ears, more perceived low end and your amp works less hard.

What's to decide?

And this is all true too!

 

[Jim Carr]

Anyone pushing a 4 ohm TB153 with a Shuttle 6.0 in a loud, low-end heavy application?
Is the 6.0 adequate?

 

[rmars]

More surface area gives you louder volume closer to your ears, more perceived low end and your amp works less hard.

What's to decide?

I love you man, your just the devil's advocate that I needed!
Honestly after reading various threads on cabs with 3015LF's it seems some guys think your nuts if you run two but my thinking is in line with what your saying. In the past I have sometimes have a tendency for overkill (though I'm usually mindful of my volume for the gig) and was just trying to make sure I wasn't thinking crazy...

 

[rmars]

You might play with the volume/master balance a bit to keep the peak light off if it bugs you.

Yeah, I did that and it helped, I backed off the bass a tiny bit and that helped as well. Not a problem on some stuff but someone requested some Billy Idol and we pulled out Rebel Yell and I was kinda shocked how much that light was on! Again, it was flickering I'd just rather not push my stuff so hard if I didn't have to.

The cab would likely blow well before you cause any amp damage.

Exactly! And at around $300 for a replacement speaker I'd rather not!

I doubt that the volume difference between the 600 watts of the 12.2 and the 900 watts of the 9.2 would be all that significant.

Kinda what I was thinking as well. Been running the same amp for years so I'm kinda re-learning and needed to bounce some stuff off you guys!

 

[rmars]

Anyone pushing a 4 ohm TB153 with a Shuttle 6.0 in a loud, low-end heavy application?
Is the 6.0 adequate?

Hey Jim,
I don't have any experience with the with the 6.0 but I won't let that stop me from giving you my opinion!

I know that this cab is very sensitive to things that don't faze my 10's. Right had plucking technique, pickup to string height etc. (though thankfully the Shuttlemax is rounder sounding and much more forgiving than the Demeter).

Also I have read that the Shuttle 6.0 lowend voicing was tweaked compared to the 9.0 so not to damage the smaller cabs it was designed to be used with and get the most out of it's design.

For me this cab needs some bass boost to really make it work, not a lot but more than I have to do with my 10's (the trade off being how well this handles that lowend boost compared to 10's and what that does to the overall volume).

Therein lies my concern. I don't know what they've done to the 6.0 to keep the lows in check but you may really have to boost that lowend to compensate with this cab and that can potentially eats watts since it takes some much more power to produce the low notes. I could be wrong on this as I'm just learning about the class D amps but that would be my line of thinking.

 

[Jim Carr]

Hi Ryan—

Thanks! Yeah, there is a high pass filter, but I've read that activating the bass contour emphasis shuts it off. Also, the Parametric mid can be used to vary a band other than the mid band the mid-range contour emphasis affects—if that makes any sense.

I suppose I will eventually get a bigger micro...

Hey Jim,
I don't have any experience with the with the 6.0 but I won't let that stop me from giving you my opinion!

I know that this cab is very sensitive to things that don't faze my 10's. Right had plucking technique, pickup to string height etc. (though thankfully the Shuttlemax is rounder sounding and much more forgiving than the Demeter).

Also I have read that the Shuttle 6.0 lowend voicing was tweaked compared to the 9.0 so not to damage the smaller cabs it was designed to be used with and get the most out of it's design.

For me this cab needs some bass boost to really make it work, not a lot but more than I have to do with my 10's (the trade off being how well this handles that lowend boost compared to 10's and what that does to the overall volume).

Therein lies my concern. I don't know what they've done to the 6.0 to keep the lows in check but you may really have to boost that lowend to compensate with this cab and that can potentially eats watts since it takes some much more power to produce the low notes. I could be wrong on this as I'm just learning about the class D amps but that would be my line of thinking.

 

[rmars]

Hi Ryan—
I've read that activating the bass contour emphasis shuts it off Also, the Parametric mid can be used to vary a band other than the mid band the mid-range contour emphasis affects—if that makes any sense.

Good points, I recall reading that as well on the bass contour. In that case I'm sure you'll be fine with the 6.0. The 600watts thru the TB153 is probably as loud as any 410 I've heard and it definitely stays tighter!

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

First of all, if avatar skimped on the dampening materials definitely add some, or lots, it will help.

This is Burning Skies fEARful sub15. Notice how much is in there? LOTS. Layers should be 2 -2.5 inches. As to dampening materials there are choice to be made but poly batting (the stuff that is used to fill quilts) is pretty good and easier than some other choices. I bought a large bag of it at walmart for around $12. Cover everything except the port area.
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As to the mid, rip open an old cushion and use the stuffing to fill the box. That should help. More info on that here:[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

As to the Shuttle 6.0 it is not a great amp for these types of cabs as it does not have much girth in the low-end.

One thing I like to do is boost the 120-200hz about 3 to 6db. That will likely solve the volume issues. Aside from that add more speaker surface area to increase volume significantly. Hope all that helps a bit.

 

[rpsands]

The Avatar mids are closed back. No stuffing needed.

 

[NWB]

Anyone pushing a 4 ohm TB153 with a Shuttle 6.0 in a loud, low-end heavy application?
Is the 6.0 adequate?

Yes and yes.

Depending on what you mean my low-end. I use standard tuning 4-string basses and the combination works very well for me.

 

[Jim Carr]

Anyone pushing a 4 ohm TB153 with a Shuttle 6.0 in a loud, low-end heavy application?
Is the 6.0 adequate?

Yes and yes.

Depending on what you mean my low-end. I use standard tuning 4-string basses and the combination works very well for me.

Thanks! I use 4 string, upright, a 55-01 Lakland tuned BEADG, and a 5-string fretless tuned EADGC—in other words, mostly standard 4-string but some 5-string low B stuff. Mostly in Reggae and Jawaiian music.

 

[Britbonic]

Thanks! I use 4 string, upright, a 55-01 Lakland tuned BEADG, and a 5-string fretless tuned EADGC—in other words, mostly standard 4-string but some 5-string low B stuff. Mostly in Reggae and Jawaiian music.

I've been running my gk mb200 with this cab. Great amp, with any cab. With my 55-01 the low end is fantastic. Plenty of bottom and volume and I play with a pretty hrd hitting drummer.

 

[rmars]

I finally plugged my rig in after this weeked..... keep in mind it was in my living room and not a club but the settings were all the same........ I gotta say that thing is painfully loud with 600watts! If your anywhere near that speaker it's insane! I was sitting on the couch playing for a few minutes and it's concussion city! The band must have been ridiculously loud the last set Saturday night for me to have to push it as loud as I did! The next morning my head was killing me and I thought it was from the hangover but now I'm not to sure it wasn't this cab!

The ShuttleMax works so well with this cab! I love my Demeter pre but you just can't take advantage of what this cab can do without some good mid controls.

At this point I'm so satisfied with this cab that I'll gonna sell my B210's and probably order a second one of these for my louder gigs (but I will wearing ear plugs with this thing ear level!)

For what it's worth, from time to time I read about guys that match these up with a 210's or something else. Though I think I've tried it before curiosity made me try it again (though I was sure I knew the result)....... and it's not good. You get what seems to be half the volume and the sound is so thin from the frequency combing it's not even funny, not a good idea! I believe I tried it with the Demeter and it wasn't as bad because the Demeter doesn't have as much going on in the lows and low mids, with the Shuttlemax it's absolutely awful! It's a total waste of what this amp, cab or for that matter the other cab is capable off.

 

[Sequimite]

I just read through the two parts of this thread and am considering buying this cab.

I have a question about impedance. Has anyone checked it on this cab? If I'm starting with a 4 ohm Kapalite 3015LF, is it still a 4 ohm cabinet after the x-over and the other two drivers come into play?

 

[lokikallas]

I just read through the two parts of this thread and am considering buying this cab.

I have a question about impedance. Has anyone checked it on this cab? If I'm starting with a 4 ohm Kapalite 3015LF, is it still a 4 ohm cabinet after the x-over and the other two drivers come into play?

As far as your amp is concerned its a negligible difference.

 

[Britbonic]

You order the cab as either an 8 or 4 ohm model. Thats the overall impedance of the cab, not the individual drivers. As a general rule, if you think you'll use only one cab, get a 4 ohm. If you're likely to use 2 or use it with another cab, get a 8 ohm. These cabs are big and full sounding. For most small to medium size gigs, one cab and a good head should cover it.