Avatar SB 112 vrs 212 neo sound differences

[butchblack]

Hi all

I'm thinking of adding a cab to my set up. I currently run an SB112 neo with a GK backline 600 head (8&#937 which is fine for about 85% of my gigs. On the occasional larger or louder gigs I'll add an old Peavey 115BW re-coned to 8Ω. The problem is it's heavy as all get out (about 90 lbs.) I want to get either another SB112 neo or their 212 neo. Does anyone use 2 112 neos and have you ever compared it to a single 212 neo? I'm leaning towards the 212 8 Ω as it gives me more flexibility for not a lot more weight. I could go with a more powerful head, still use the 112 on small, low volume gigs, or both together when I need to push more air. Health and age issues have me considering just adding another 112 however. What, if any perceivable differences would I hear from the 212 versus 2 112s? Any thoughts etc on the matter would be appreciated. I could, and probably will ask Dave's opinion on the matter, but as I'm at least a couple months away from doing anything I don't want to bother him. Also, has anyone used the 112/212 combo? Would I have a problem with the 112 cab being louder then the 212 cab due to its lower power rating?

Also, does anyone know if they have changed their speaker specs since May 2007, which is when I bought my 112 neo.
TIA

 

[LesS]

Just my two cents - I would get the Avatar 2x12 Neo.
When a 1x12 is used with a 2x12 and the drivers are identical, the 1x12 will provide approx 1/3 the volume and the 2x12 approx 2/3 the volume - it would sound about like a 3x12 (in one cabinet).

 

[JMDT]

In most cases a 212 >> 2 112's. Looking at the design of these boxes, it looks like the same will be true.

 

[MuzikMan]

I don't think a 2x12 has any benefit over 2 1x12's except for maybe one less trip to the stage. Generally single twelve cabs benefit from greater volume per driver than a 2x12 cab. Single 12 cabs inherently have better bracing as well. This is the case with Avatar cabs for sure.

I would go with another 1x12 cab. Between doubling your speakers and increasing you amps output you will be noticeably louder.

 

[Mystic Michael]

I don't think a 2x12 has any benefit over 2 1x12's except for maybe one less trip to the stage. Generally single twelve cabs benefit from greater volume per driver than a 2x12 cab. Single 12 cabs inherently have better bracing as well. This is the case with Avatar cabs for sure.

I would go with another 1x12 cab. Between doubling your speakers and increasing you amps output you will be noticeably louder.

I agree. In fact, I think the ideal way to do this is to invest in multiple 8-ohm 1x12 cabs - for a total of two to four - and perhaps a more powerful amp that will handle down to 2 ohms, if necessary.

In addition to the greater volume per driver and better bracing that MuzikMan stated, you also get vertical alignment of the drivers (not horizontal or diagonal) for a line array effect, plus greater modularity.

MM

 

[greenboy]

Generally single twelve cabs benefit from greater volume per driver than a 2x12 cab.

I find that tyro cab analyzers tend to underestimate how much internal volume is taken by drivers, handle scoops, bracing and ports, and often estimate cab size with EXTERIOR dimensions. So it may appear that single-driver cabs have more per driver, but often it ends up not being the case.

EDIT: I'm not saying that this is the case with the Avatar 112 and 212 - the 112 may indeed have more net space inside per driver, but in many other cases the cabs are often tuned the same but just double the volume for the 2-by versions.

 

[greenboy]

BTW, if a midrange cone could be squeezed onto that Avatar 112's baffle, it'd be a good retrofit box for the new Em Kappalite 3012LF which is pretty damn impressive. A crossover change and maybe retuning it by extending the port shelf and you'd be able to blast!

 

[61kalamazoo]

Butch,

My rig has evolved to two sb-112's & a Neo Pak. It's a flexible rig for folks that have fried backs... I use one cab for small venues and a stack for larger ones. Coupled, more bass & dB's and more wattage capabilities.

Regarding tone, I replaced the foster horns with selenium. Much smoother and musical!

 

[Malachi71]

Butch,

My rig has evolved to two sb-112's & a Neo Pak. It's a flexible rig for folks that have fried backs... I use one cab for small venues and a stack for larger ones. Coupled, more bass & dB's and more wattage capabilities.

Regarding tone, I replaced the foster horns with selenium. Much smoother and musical!

Which Selenium horn model did you use? Did you have to change the crossover?

 

[4Mal]

I can heartliy recommend pairing the Avatar 112 with their 2x10 cab. The 210 is voiced a little deeper than the 112 and the pair work well together. It's a nice full sounding stack and an easy carry.

The 2x12 is a little more mid-focused than either the 1x12 or 2x10. The best sounding of the Avatar 2x12's is the older cab loaded with Deltat's running just a hi pass on the horn to my ear. More solid low end out of that cab. The second generation neo got closer to that sound from the first gen neo - but not quite all the way there.

Your cab should have the latest generation 12" neo driver. The cut-over from the 1st gen to the second was Feb/Mar of 07. IIRC it was September 06 for the cut over on the 10's.

... and yes, Greenboy - there is a big bunch of room on the SB112 for a cone based mid driver. I originally bought mine with that in mind but the thing sounds good enough for my uses on it's own I haven't gotten there. I was thinking the B&C 6.5 that goes up to about 6 or 6.5 K...

 

[Ryan Mohr]

Bump, I too am wondering if there any sound differences between a 2 x SB112 or B212 rig. I am looking for punchy mids, full lows, and smoooth highs.

 

[alangrus]

One reason I went with Avatars is that the SB112 Neo LF set I bought will correctly stack with their 2x12 and 4x10 cabs should I ever choose to go that way. Just one SB112 is real full sounding for most gigs. I got a matching mate for bigger gigs and the stack gets a huge sound. You should not need more unless the stage volume is real loud. My next add would be the 2x12.

Link Removed

 

[XtraLongScale]

I use both configurations:

Pair of SB112 Neos:

and the SB112 Neo + B212 Neo:

I normally use the pair of 112s for P.A. assisted gigs and for non P.A. gigs Where I need more volume I swap one of the 112s for a 212. No big tonal difference between the two rigs other than slightly more bass with the 212 in the equation. The 112 on top doesn't get louder than the 212 so no worries there. If I need a one cab solution on the fly, I use the single 212 and an 800RB which is plenty ample for most scenarios. I'd say get both cabs but if the cashish is tight, get the 212 for sure.

 

[ChrisB2]

Health and age issues have me considering just adding another 112 however.

I can't comment on the the comparison question, but, weight aside, the 212 is a fairly large box that's somewhat awkward to carry due to its size, which increases the difficulty more than just the weight difference. I can one-hand it, but often find myself using both hands, and I am young-ish, big, and strong (heh heh). Do you regularly one-hand your 112?

You're not getting younger, and probably not getting healthier so thinking down the road, the 112 would better suit your handling concerns.

...just something to add to the mix when weighing the other fine "technical" and "sound/volume comparison" posts of others.

 

[FuzzBoxVoodoo]

XtraLongScale.
Whats the reason the you Roll your 2x12 on its side?

 

[XtraLongScale]

XtraLongScale.
Whats the reason the you Roll your 2x12 on its side?

To align the vents. It doesn't make a big difference compared to the 212 being upright especially on stage but the sound seems slightly fuller as you go further into the room. It's just a small step I take when playing non P.A. shows. None of the drivers are aligned though so it's probably negligible anyways.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

One reason I went with Avatars is that the SB112 Neo LF set I bought will correctly stack with their 2x12 and 4x10 cabs should I ever choose to go that way. Just one SB112 is real full sounding for most gigs. I got a matching mate for bigger gigs and the stack gets a huge sound. You should not need more unless the stage volume is real loud. My next add would be the 2x12.

Link Removed

Nice rig! Those SB112s look awesome stacked.

Are you saying you would have 2 x SB112 + B212?

I use both configurations:

Pair of SB112 Neos:

and the SB112 Neo + B212 Neo:

I normally use the pair of 112s for P.A. assisted gigs and for non P.A. gigs Where I need more volume I swap one of the 112s for a 212. No big tonal difference between the two rigs other than slightly more bass with the 212 in the equation. The 112 on top doesn't get louder than the 212 so no worries there. If I need a one cab solution on the fly, I use the single 212 and an 800RB which is plenty ample for most scenarios. I'd say get both cabs but if the cashish is tight, get the 212 for sure.

Nice rigs! How does the pair of SB112s compare to the single B212? Is there more perceived volume with one vs. the other? Are the tones different? I'm really interested in warm, punchy, and growly midrange, a full low end, and a smooth high end.

 

[Mystic Michael]

I must say, those SB112 mini-stacks look great! I'm thinking (2) 4-ohm SB112s, combined with say, a Nemesis RS700 head (700 watts @ 2 ohms - or 350 watts per cab) would make an excellent low-cost, relatively powerful, compact club rig, eh?

MM

 

[Michael Vee]

BTW, if a midrange cone could be squeezed onto that Avatar 112's baffle, it'd be a good retrofit box for the new Em Kappalite 3012LF which is pretty damn impressive. A crossover change and maybe retuning it by extending the port shelf and you'd be able to blast!

I had posted about this in the main fEarful thread, and have written Dave Noss to inquire. Dave is not familiar at this point with the 3012LF, and said that he can't load one into the SB112. I'm interested in refitting an SB112 with a 3012LF and a midrange, and then redoing the crossover, but not if I have to buy a new SB112 for $275 and then promptly scrap everything but the cab. I'll just wait to see if Dave makes the 3012LF an option.

Truth be told, the enhanced 2512 12" that comes in these doesn't look bad at all. I might can see just replacing the horn with a mid and redoing the crossover. I'm definitely a fan of using a mid-high driver instead of a basic Foster.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

bump, I'm specifically interesting on how a 2 x 1x12 stack compares to a single 2x12.