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Double Bass Bach BMV1068

N

notabene

Sep 20, 2010
676
654
SF Bay area
#1
I have done a bass/piano arrangement ot Bach BMV 1068 suite#3…Air. (Often named “Air on a G string) I didn’t really understand why the arrangement's name (done in the 19th century, I believe) was called that. After I finished and played it a while, I realized, when I had transposed it from D major to G major (the bass part was too high/or low in D) now it lies best entirely on the bass’ D string. The sonority on the D string on my bass is much more mellow than the G string, as the G string on violin is mellower than the D string. For me, it is (of course) much easier to play on two or more strings, but it is a great exercise just on the D string.
also…This is a gorgeous rendition (in tune) of one of the source versions.



I hope others can enjoy this.

Steven
 

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#3
bassfiddlesteve said:
That video is really nice. I'm glad we got a closeup of the violone with its five strings and gut frets. Interesting that the entire part is pizzicato.

- Steve
Click to expand...
I'm convinced the pizzicato is a contrivance. It doesn't appear in the manuscript or any scholarly version of the suite that I've seen. I always see it penciled in in parts, and wondered who started the trend. Possibly someone like Stokowski, and it stuck. I hate it.
 
#4
INMA(arrogant)O... The earlier the music, the less specific the instructions. I appreciate your believing it was a decision by some later interpreter. But... I honestly I think/ believe that before it became fashionable to indicate interpretations with many dynamics and articulations, it was left to sensitive, (or ham fiisted) players to turn the manuscript to music. With the romantics, partly because of labor laws for composers (admitedly unstated) tightening up (only one oratorio a day), it became fashionable to notate the details. For me, to play Bach, you must apply, with common sense and musicality, the details un- notated. For me having sent it (obviously), this was this was a wonderful performance. I'm sorry you felt otherwise, but "authenticity" seems irrelevant.

Steven
 
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#5
Apparently the pizzicato originates from August Wilhelmj’s 19th century arrangement which is when this movement from Bach’s orchestral suite became “Air on the G String”. Since the first violin part was transposed down an octave the orchestration had to be adjusted and pizzicato was indicated for the cello and double bass parts. Bach’s original continuo part would not have indicated pizzicato since the instrumentation of the continuo group was not fixed.

- Steve
 
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#7
The G string on a violin is mellower than any of the other screetchy ones.
On my bass, the D string is mellowewr than the G string. The melody wants to be "sweet", so on my bass, eventually, with a lot of work, doing it on the D string will be better (if I can improve the intonation of high on the D string to the OK level of intonation I have on the meaty part of the G string. Mileage (kilometerage?) may vary.

Steven
 
#8
notabene said:
The G string on a violin is mellower than any of the other screetchy ones
Click to expand...
In your video (which is I guess the nicest version of the song I ever heard) I see the violinist play the melody mostly on E string. In other videos sometimes players play it on G, octave lower. @Steve Boisen writes that this idea originated in 19th century; I gather the original was octave higher then.

I also have doubts about the idea of mellownes of the D string. I have no orchestral experience however; as a spirocore jazzer, I feel the lower strings generally tend to sound mellower, which in the real room transfer to muddier, and I have to spend a lot of effort to make them sound brighter.
I would guess that the mellownes of your video comes from bow control, from the great work of accompanying instruments, and also from the dropped tuning (435Hz?). I'd like to learn more though - it's one of THE songs, albeit a bit too well known.

I have seen bass transcriptions of Air to G major. I was wondering why to transpose it; perhaps you got the right answer. I tried to play it in G and didn't really like it, especially because the bass part loses too many of the octave jumps, or needs to be played in cello octave, messing with the melody. Or are you playing the whole melody in the thumb position on D string, octave higher than written? That would be a real deal, but theoretically possible. This idea gives me a back pain even just thinking about it ;-)
 
#9
JJ:@Steve Boisen[/USER] writes that this idea originated in 19th century;

NB:I understand this to be true.

JJ:I gather the original was octave higher then.

NB:I don't know. I didn't do anything with the Youtube version but listen once, and enjoy it.

JJ:I also have doubts about the idea of mellownes of the D string. I have no orchestral experience however; as a spirocore jazzer, I feel the lower strings generally tend to sound mellower, which in the real room transfer to muddier, and I have to spend a lot of effort to make them sound brighter.

Answer:
NB:As a jazzer who practices playing arco to be able to play better in tune, and also with others in amateur "classical" settings, my arco d string speaks more mellowly than my G, on any of the four basses I have access to, so (to me) it seems to be part of the nature of the double bass, though it could be my ears, damaged by life.
The arrangement I enclosed at the beginning of the thread was my transposition and and arrangement of a piano part, different, not copied, from any other version.


JJ:I would guess that the mellownes of your video comes from bow control, from the great work of accompanying instruments, and also from the dropped tuning (435Hz?). I'd like to learn more though - it's one of THE songs, albeit a bit too well known.

I have seen bass transcriptions of Air to G major. I was wondering why to transpose it; perhaps you got the right answer. I tried to play it in G and didn't really like it, especially because the bass part loses too many of the octave jumps, or needs to be played in cello octave, messing with the melody.

NB: Please look at the arrangement I sent. It is easy to play on the G string, or on the D string, requiring very little thumb position.

JJ:Or are you playing the whole melody in the thumb position on D string, octave higher than written? That would be a real deal, but theoretically possible. This idea gives me a back pain even just thinking about it ;-)[/QUOTE]

NB: Again look at what I sent. As with any bass part, it sounds an octave lower. Hence the need to make sure the piano part leaves enough sonic space to avoid mud. I think I succeeded.

And to be clear, the video was not in any way arranged by me.

The arrangement I sent was intended to be playable by myself, and a competent pianist, both far from virtuousos, and sound "pretty good".
I suceeded for myself.
 
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#10
notabene said:
I'm sorry you felt otherwise, but "authenticity" seems irrelevant.

Steven
Click to expand...
Actually, I didn't mean to argue for authenticity. That's a bottomless rabbit hole. Even before I knew anything about it, I thought the pizzicato sounded out of place. As you say, a lot of music from the time is without many, if any, indications for performance. It won't be the last time I play something I don't really like. :)
 

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