Backbraking experience: CA9

[Passinwind]

Use a QSC 2402 = 700 watts/ch @ 4 ohms into 2 ACME B2's. Works nicely. 21 pounds. IF you can, find the PLX series on blowout(i.e. $649 for the 2402 with 6 year warranty!) as the PLX2 series in now replacing it.

The PLX 1804 runs less than that from the right dealer (a bit more if you you buy the warranty extension for years 4-6 though), and is shallower, lighter, and more powerful into 8 or 4 ohms a channel. I've owned both, and they both worked well for me. I'd only buy another 2402 if I needed the capability to run bridged, personally. But they're a great deal on the used market these days.

 

[zoran]

I would definitely check Lab gruppen light series, I prefer it over my qsc plx 2402 which is also great poweramp. More expensive though, but it worth it.

Also, if you want digital technology you can check Cad audio, or Powersoft poweramps

 

[mola]

I have to Thank You all for the input on this thread.
To make this matter a bit clearer:
At this moment I´m using a Goliath Sr and a Goliath Jr, each rated 8 ohm, The plan is to downsize, probably to two 112 cabs. I´m looking for the "perfect" gig rig, with a power amp that would work well in that F1X + 2 x 112 combination. I know that the CA9 might be overkill, but it shurely gives a killer sound.
As oddio stated, I´m in for a compromise. Out of pricing the QSC PLX series are the most attractive. I´ll continue my quest for the best compromise and are looking forward to getting more input on this

 

[rok51]

The PLX 1804 runs less than that from the right dealer (a bit more if you you buy the warranty extension for years 4-6 though), and is shallower, lighter, and more powerful into 8 or 4 ohms a channel. I've owned both, and they both worked well for me. I'd only buy another 2402 if I needed the capability to run bridged, personally. But they're a great deal on the used market these days.

How did the 1804 stack up against the 2402 in a real world sense? I have the 1602 that I bridge, but I'd rather just go stereo into 4 or 8 ohms...the 1602 is a little shy at 8 ohms, IMHO.

Thanks,

Kim

 

[John D Harris]

What about a Lab Gruppen? They're in your own backyard and only weigh about 8kg.

www.labgruppen.com

...And don't give up an ounce of performance to heavier amps.


...

Very interesting!

I'm assuming you're referring to the 'fP' series.
I've been wondering how these compare to the heavyweights.
I'd heard so many good things about their sound.

 

[Passinwind]

How did the 1804 stack up against the 2402 in a real world sense? I have the 1602 that I bridge, but I'd rather just go stereo into 4 or 8 ohms...the 1602 is a little shy at 8 ohms, IMHO.

I've owned the PLX 1202, 1602, 2402, and now the 1804. For stereo operation in my rig, the 1804 definitely has an appreciable headroom increase over the 2402. It goes as deep as I need it to, including for synth and my EUB, both of which really make a lot of low end. For me, stereo into 8 was a little shy with the 1602, just enough with the 2402, and very nice with the 1804. The 2402 bridged was a beast though.

The cabs I'm using with the 1804 are an AccuGroove Tri112L and an EA CxL-112, both 1 X 12 cabs like the OP mentioned, for what it's worth.

 

[Poon]

I have to Thank You all for the input on this thread.
To make this matter a bit clearer:
At this moment I´m using a Goliath Sr and a Goliath Jr, each rated 8 ohm, The plan is to downsize, probably to two 112 cabs. I´m looking for the "perfect" gig rig, with a power amp that would work well in that F1X + 2 x 112 combination. I know that the CA9 might be overkill, but it shurely gives a killer sound.
As oddio stated, I´m in for a compromise. Out of pricing the QSC PLX series are the most attractive. I´ll continue my quest for the best compromise and are looking forward to getting more input on this

I'd definitely say get a 1804 then. Especially after what Passinwind said.

 

[Passinwind]

I'd definitely say get a 1804 then. Especially after what Passinwind said.

Heh! Well, I'm still planning on putting a little time into trying the CA9 one of these days when I can arrange it. As much as I haven't experienced any benefit from a lead sled over a good switcher amp for my wants, I would like to see if I can duplicate the circumstances where it might exist. But honestly, the 1804 is probably the heaviest amp I'm ever likely to own at this point.

 

[Bluesy Soul]

Have you looked for a used Crest LT2000? I own one and think it sounds every bit as good as a CA9. The LT series uses Class D output technology with a linear power supply, so it's not as light as some of the other Class D amps. The LT series was nominated for a TEC Outstanding Technological Achievement award in 2001, but Crest recently discontinued the LT line. I don't know why, but I would guess there might not have been enough difference between the LT and the CA lines for the market to distinguish and the CA line is much better known.

Here are some differences that do exist between the LT2000 and the CA9:
-the LT2000 produces 40 watts (6.67%) less per channel at 8 ohms;
-the LT2000 produces 100 watts (11.11%) more per channel at 4 ohms;
-the LT2000 produces 200 watts (20.00%) more per channel at 2 ohms;
-the LT2000 produces 200 watts (11.11%) more bridged at 8 ohms;
-the LT2000 produces 400 watts (20.00%) more bridged at 4 ohms; and
-depending on the weighing method used for the LT2000 (the Crest website doesn't differentiate), the LT2000 weighs either 12 or 17 lbs. less than the CA9.

You can confirm these and other specs at Invalid Link Removed. Manuals and specs are under the "Service" tab at the top of the home page. I understand Jim Bergantino and Andy Lewis (Acme) have both suggested "lead sleds" for powering their speakers--I own and use both brands--rather than Stewarts and some other lightweight models. You might find this discussion of Stewart and other Class D amps on the Acme website (www.acmebass.com under the "Forums" tab) to be of interest; but remember as you read it, the Crest LT series DOES have a toroidal transformer/linear power supply. I've always used my LT2000 with a Furman Plus II power conditioner and have never had a hiccup.

My local dealer recently received in trade a used CA9 in pristine condition. I knew the history of the amp (never gigged), so I took my rack case in to compare the two. I was prepared to buy the CA9 on the spot if it sounded better, but it didn't. They sounded virtually identical. I acknowledge that it was a comparison in a shop rather than in a gig situation, but I have never heard an LT owner who wasn't pleased with the performance of their amp.

I don't see any LT2000s on eBay at the moment (though there is an LT1500), but they're worth watching for. I paid hundreds less for my lesser-known LT2000 than a typical used CA9.

Good luck to you.

Bluesy Soul

 

[jokerjkny]

i love my PLX2 1804!

terrific power amp that sounds big and beautiful onstage, without that feeling of lost horsepower. and its sooo dang light.

the stewart is a great amp, but i'd think you'd have a better chance of finding service in europe w/ QSC's support than stewart, no?

regardless, the 1804 is a winner!

 

[rockstarbassist]

The Stewart is out, as has been said, and I'm on my 2nd QSC PLX series amp.

Currently use a 3402 but only 1 channel @ 4 ohms which is 1100W. It doesn't even sweat when I push it. I love it.

I haven't bridged it yet as I probably wouldn't be able to turn the Volume and Master levels on my preamp past .5 without blowing paint off the walls!!

Plus at 25 lbs? No question. I haven't played a CA-9 and it'd be kind of hard to "test out" one honestly, but, given the weight ratio compared to perceived sound, there's not a second thought.
If I wanted a rack into the 70lb. range, I'd just get a DB750!

 

[rok51]

Sounds like an 1804 is on my short list then-thanks for the feedback!

Kim

 

[Vic]

For me, the Stewart was interesting, but scared me off due to no fan cooling. That is OK indoors, but IMO not acceptable playing outdoors in the Sacramento heat. The older ones had failure problems; I expect the new models have that corrected.

I think you're confused. I know the Stewart is out of the picture in this thread, but the only Stewart that didn't have a fan was the single rack space 1.2. Both the two space models, the 1.6 and 2.1 have cooling fans.

Just an FYI.

 

[bgavin]

Thanks for clearing that up. I know a couple bassists who blew up multiple Stewarts from over heating. That soured me enough on Stewart to walk away. I found the PLX series at 21 pounds, and never looked back at Stewart or the others.

Tiny amps have to make compromises, otherwise Crown, QSC, and the other major players would all make all tiny amps.

 

[Vic]

Thanks for clearing that up. I know a couple bassists who blew up multiple Stewarts from over heating. That soured me enough on Stewart to walk away. I found the PLX series at 21 pounds, and never looked back at Stewart or the others.

IMHO, the Stewart outperforms the PLX tonally... at least comparing the 2402 and the World 2.1, the 2.1 seemed "punchier"... and I've abused my World and not had a hiccup at all. Just MHO, but FWIW. I think QSC puts out a great product, and may check out a PLX2 (1802) someday, but these days my needs for that kinda' horsepower are few, so it can wait.

 

[rockstarbassist]

IMHO, the Stewart outperforms the PLX tonally... at least comparing the 2402 and the World 2.1, the 2.1 seemed "punchier"... and I've abused my World and not had a hiccup at all. Just MHO, but FWIW. I think QSC puts out a great product, and may check out a PLX2 (1802) someday, but these days my needs for that kinda' horsepower are few, so it can wait.

If I ever honestly thought I'd stick to a one-signal or one-preamp kind of setup, I'd prolly get a Stewy and bridge it.

But considering I like options too much, having 1700W per channel is a comforting thought!

 

[Big String]

I kinda just skimmed this thread and didn't see what I'd like to add.

I've got a CA9 and although I'm currently using my DB750 on most gigs, nothing has out performed my CA9 in certain terms.
The 'terms' I speak of are dynamic headroom. My limited knowledge of actual/real outputs and unity gain etc. leave me with my real live gigging experience.

I had a 2402 and it was light and sound just fine until I ran out of head-room on several important (to me) gigs that were mainly outside venues. Just plain ran out of steam... clipped.

Mind you there are other factors like cabinet effeciency etc., but onece I started using my CA9 (never needed to bridge it either) man .... it's was clear sailing. I keep it and take when ever I'm not sure if there "will be enough"....

 

[Fuzzbass]

Thanks for clearing that up. I know a couple bassists who blew up multiple Stewarts from over heating. That soured me enough on Stewart to walk away. I found the PLX series at 21 pounds, and never looked back at Stewart or the others.

As Vic noted, this applies to the Stewart World 1.2 model. Some have reported that in certain conditions it will go into thermal shutdown when bridged into 4 ohms. Many report that the issue isn't difficult to fix: leave empty space above and below the amp (as recommended by the manufacturer), and add a little outboard fan if necessary.

I use the Stewart World 2.1 model (17 pounds), which has a variable speed fan. I've experienced no issues of any kind, not even in 95 degree, 90% humidity outdoor gigs (LOUD ones).

I have no opinion on whether QSC or Stewart sounds better. I'm just stepping up for Stew because the occasional issue with the 1.2 model often gets attributed to the entire Stewart line.

 

[Vic]

I use the Stewart World 2.1 model (17 pounds), which has a variable speed fan. I've experienced no issues of any kind, not even in 95 degree, 90% humidity outdoor gigs (LOUD ones).

+1

In my case, it was an outdoor beer garden, fully fenced in, so no real breeze... super hot weather, direct sun beaming right down on the face of all my gear (at one pont it was almost too hot to touch), late summer swealtering heat, LOUD (actually, too loud to be honest), no issues. The guitar player was even draping stuff over his Marshal half-stack for fear of heat issues. That was probably the worst one, but I've used it on many outdoor festivals and such in nasty heat and again, never a problem.

However, I would say, if weight was no concern to me, I'd have a CA9. That one worked the best for me, but per this thread, just too heavy for my lower back problems.

I'm just stepping up for Stew because the occasional issue with the 1.2 model often gets attributed to the entire Stewart line.

+1

I'm sure Stewarts aren't everyone's favorite, but I just like to try to keep the info accurate for better or worse. I personally consider the 1.2 to be the bastage child of the World line, fairly special purpose, and not really best suited for bass rigs (IMHO!!).

 

[Pocket1]

I bought a Carvin DCM 1500, 1500 watts bridged at 4 ohms, for $250 on ebay and combine it with an aguilar db 659 (purchased preowned for $500) for a $750 backup to my DB750.

OMG...same weight as the db 750, but headroom and tone for days.

I know a little of topic but $ for $ awsome power and tone.

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