Backing tracks question... is this sort of thing real?

[pklima]

Now, that's from There's a Sucker Born Every Minute which is (excellent and highly recommended) fiction, but I do know orchestral samples of page-turning and general background noise are very much a real thing. So... has anyone here worked in a live situation with backing tracks which included not just the sounds of instruments, but also realism-enhancing incidental musician noises?

 

[Pdaddy1978]

I think this speaks to the uncomfortable truth that many of us know but don't often acknowledge.
Casual listeners at live performances... DO NOT CARE how the product gets delivered to their ears. We here, who take pride in the craft of making live music do care.
Most people watching movies aren't put off when a favorite scene is revealed to be created through special effects... or CGI.
Suspended disbelief.
Ive had exactly zero experience with playing to backing tracks, and zero interest in trying to. But most folks don't know, or care, until a Jessica Simpson or a Milli Vanille tape operator drops the ball.

 

[silky smoove]

In a limited capacity, yes. One group that I occasionally work with includes crowd noise in their tracks at points of transition from song-to-song. At first I scoffed at the idea, but it's similar to how some television comedies benefit from having prerecorded laugh tracks. Watch some of the YouTube videos that strip these out and jokes that previously seemed funny simply do not land. Similarly, when a song ends and there's applause the crowd tends to follow suit. When a song starts with unison clapping, the crowd also tends to follow suit. The behavior was a bit like watching lemmings and could be construed as some perverse psychological/social experiment, but the crowd noises did result in a crowd that was engaged more than they would have been otherwise, and they did appear to be having a good time so there's no harm.

 

[Michedelic]

Kiss Alive and Kiss Alive II?

 

[sawzalot]

My band plays with tracks except for a few songs where we stretch out. Seems like it wouldn’t be a stretch to put crowd noise in, but my experience is the tracks are really linear production. So you’ll get crowd noise for an exact length of time. Our drummer runs the Ableton rig that drives the tracks and will start/stop them as needed, so presumably the crowd noise would as well, which could be awkward.

 

[CryingBass]

How many glass and plate sounds are in the BE Night at the Village Vanguard? Always seemed cool to me.

 

[Wasnex]

I did some gigs with midi sequences in the 90s. I have seen bands use Ableton to fill out the band. AFAIK it's fairly common.

I have also seen performances where a full big band was concealed behind a screen. I thought only the vocalist where live and everything else was prerecorded. But at the end of the show the screen lifted to reveal the band.

 

[Ostie]

I know a guy who uses tracks while he plays guitar and sings live. His reasoning is that he can practice when he wants, no scheduling, and suffers no band drama. I get it, but it’s not something I’m interested in. It sounds like advanced karaoke to me.

 

[ole Jason]

There's a huge difference between using backing tracks that are part of the music and superfulous environmental sounds meant to enhance the performance or influence the audience. I think OP is asking about the latter.

 

[jeffbrown]

Many years ago, I went to a concert of a purportedly eastern Russia-based band whose sound was, um enhanced. Some violins were micced (the lead players).... *I* could tell, but the majority of the audience likely had no clue.

I saw a British popular singer, also many years ago (he's now sadly deceased) whose vocals were canned. He stepped away from his mic for whatever reason, but when the verse next kicked in, he was still off-mic. The crowd guffawed and he apologized, saying THAT wouldn't happen again and sang the rest of the show w/o the track. He was flawless after that.

Lots of solo artists hereabouts use loopers, but that's not quite the same. I haven't noticed if they also employ extra tracks. LOL - YMMV!

 

[One_Dude]

This may not be a favored opinion about backing tracks, but if I paid money to see a band perform and they used backing tracks I would feel like they cheated me. I can stay home, save the price of a concert ticket, the hassle of parking, putting up with poorly behaved audience members, and listen to their CD at whatever volume I like.

I am perfectly fine with using backing tracks for rehearsing when the whole band can't get together to practice, but using backing tracks in what is billed as a "live" performance, just doesn't cut it for me. If that's what the customer wants they can hire a DJ.

Thump on,

One_Dude

 

[D.A.R.K.]

In a limited capacity, yes. One group that I occasionally work with includes crowd noise in their tracks at points of transition from song-to-song. At first I scoffed at the idea, but it's similar to how some television comedies benefit from having prerecorded laugh tracks. Watch some of the YouTube videos that strip these out and jokes that previously seemed funny simply do not land. Similarly, when a song ends and there's applause the crowd tends to follow suit. When a song starts with unison clapping, the crowd also tends to follow suit. The behavior was a bit like watching lemmings and could be construed as some perverse psychological/social experiment, but the crowd noises did result in a crowd that was engaged more than they would have been otherwise, and they did appear to be having a good time so there's no harm.

Now that is heinous. As a mix engineer, I'd mute that crap on them. Fire me, fine but someone has to stop the stupid from getting more stupid. There's more to life than doctored selfies.

 

[IanStephenson]

This may not be a favored opinion about backing tracks, but if I paid money to see a band perform and they used backing tracks I would feel like they cheated me.

Cheating is cheating, but no one is suggesting faking anything. The band still perform. Backing tracks is very different to not playing your parts.

I play in a tribute band that uses tracks heavily. There are 5 of us, and we all play the parts 100%, not faking. However hiring the required 40 piece orchestra isn't feasible. They literally wouldn't fit in some of the venues, and given what bars and clubs pay, splitting that 45 ways is a bit impractical. No one is cheating - we don't pretend we have an orchestra. No one expects us to bring an orchestra, and they understand that the only way they're going to to hear those songs performed live, with the slightest resemblance to the originals is with tracks.

Ian

 

[Micha84]

realism-enhancing

Just think about that for a second...

This whole thing makes me wonder: How would I feel if I went to a concert and I found out that the first two rows are actually hired by the band to cheer, dance and sing? Would that be different?
And my experience aside, what does it say about the band? And I don't know if the comedy show example helps, either. A lame joke doesn't get better if you are peer pressured into laughing.

And what is the next step here? A "singer" who sings to a backing track, but in his living room and watches a pre-recorded crowd on Youtube?

 

[turf3]

This may not be a favored opinion about backing tracks, but if I paid money to see a band perform and they used backing tracks I would feel like they cheated me. I can stay home, save the price of a concert ticket, the hassle of parking, putting up with poorly behaved audience members, and listen to their CD at whatever volume I like.

I am perfectly fine with using backing tracks for rehearsing when the whole band can't get together to practice, but using backing tracks in what is billed as a "live" performance, just doesn't cut it for me. If that's what the customer wants they can hire a DJ.

Thump on,

One_Dude

Hear, hear!

 

[turf3]

Well, this is also unpopular I suppose, but if you're performing music that was recorded with a big orchestra, I'd suggest making arrangements that make use of the instrumentation you do have. No, it won't sound the same. But everyone in the room knows you're not the Moody Blues or Procul Harum anyway. Maybe you can come up with something that has musical and entertainment value on its own rather than just being the best reproduction of a recording you can make.

 

[IanStephenson]

Well, this is also unpopular I suppose, but if you're performing music that was recorded with a big orchestra, I'd suggest making arrangements that make use of the instrumentation you do have. No, it won't sound the same. But everyone in the room knows you're not the Moody Blues or Procul Harum anyway. Maybe you can come up with something that has musical and entertainment value on its own rather than just being the best reproduction of a recording you can make.

What about trying to reproduce the live experience of seeing the actual band that recorded and perform it live?

What if the orchestral sound is absolutely core to the experience? The music is simply not possible to reproduce with any resemblance of the original without the orchestral parts?

What if you were actually in Queen... (not the band who's music I'm playing - just an example) should they never play bohemian rhapsody live? What if you went to see Queen and they DIDN'T play it? Or they did it arranged for acoustic guitar?

 

[turf3]

Well - and I understand that my stance on this as a musician is not necessarily the same as the ordinary person - if I see five guys on stage, I'd expect to hear something five guys can put out. I'll give some slack for synth pads, since the keys player has to actually do something - but a whole recorded backdrop of (in your example) a full orchestra? Nope. Fake. Not appealing.

I am sure someone out there is doing "Bohemian Rhapsody" or "Nights in White Satin" or "A Salty Dog" with a five piece and making it sound great. If Freddie were still alive, I think an arrangement for acoustic guitar, upright bass, voice, and drums could kick ass.

I just don't see a goal of duplicating something that can't be duplicated without inserting a tape recording. Why not just play the whole recording and go have a drink at the bar? What are you adding? Whereas if you arrange a tune for your instrumentation and musicians, you're actually doing something individual. It might not be as perfect as playing note-for-note exactly what the five band members played and using a tape recorder to provide the sounds of the full orchestra they employed for the recording session. But I think we all know by now that pretty much all recordings have overdubs, edits, splices, etc.

 

[turf3]

What about trying to reproduce the live experience of seeing the actual band that recorded and perform it live?
...

If you're using backing tracks in a bar, to play tunes that were originally performed in a symphony hall with a 40 piece orchestra (OK, extreme case here), then "reproducing the live experience" is already out the window anyway. Do you really think that sitting in a bar with five guys and a tape recorder "reproduces the live experience" of the aforesaid large concert hall with orchestra?

If I've got one pianist to perform "Pictures at an Exhibition", would it be better for him to push the start button on a tape recording of the LSO performing the orchestration, or to actually play the piano version?

 

[pklima]

I'll say this: if you dislike the concept of tracks, read the story I linked. I don't think anybody does the pre-show orchestra tuning up track in real life but in the story it sets up a very satisfying moment in the end (and one that involves the bassist). Really, the main point of this thread is that Bill Anschell writes great stories and even if he's a jazz pianist, many of us have suffered many of the same things.

And if you do use tracks, it is an exaggerated case of something it sometimes makes sense to ask: should you try to maximize quality or does trading some of it for realism make a better experience? For example, is it better to have an imperfect, studio-recorded string section that sounds like you might have hired a few friends to record that for you or even blatantly keyboard-y strings that you could have done yourself, than the LSO? Tbh with a loud drummer it probably doesn't matter anyway...