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Backing tracks

#21
There's a time and a place for everything. Imagine a live version of the Cornelius Brothers And Sister Rose hit "Too Late To Turn Back Now" without strings. You either have to be creative and do a reggae version of the song, get a decent keyboard player to do it right, or sound like a moron for attempting a live version of a song you know you're only going to butcher thereby ruining everyone's night out. That's the right place for a backing track. Being too lazy to learn the set list isn't the place.
 
#22
Depends.

Saw two originals bands recently, and there was so much background stuff happening, they may as well have left their instruments at home. It was a huge turn off. However, one of them was fairly entertaining to watch and listen to. The crowd liked the show, in general. It was sold out, packed in, and loud with good lighting. The other was a mess of intolerable noise. I've also seen several major acts do it with incredible success.

As for using parts to fill in covers, it can work and it can be award. Don't have keys on stage, yet there is an obvious keys section? Could look a little off. Some crowd members might care, but others might not. I think the crowd response is the ultimate measure here. Try it, and see if it helps or hurts. For me, if the part is a featured section then I like to see the musician triggering the sampled track, like with a midi pad on the kit or a sampling/triggering keyboard on stage. It feels more interactive. If the part is a background filler component, I'm okay with it fading in and out from the shadows.
 
#25
Resurrecting this thread...
So... for folk using backing tracks (not samples, but backing tracks) what are you using to accomplish this ???
I assume drummer triggers, has a click with lead in..
But PC w/ Ableton and footswitch, or some hardware sampler like Roland SPD-SX, L6 JM4, Jamman Stereo or Boss RC-3 ???

Looking into it.. want something easy.. and not even sure the BL will go down this path, but acoustic guitar, banjo, some fiddle and other "parts" are missing from songs on our current setlist (albeit far down that list). Somehow the thought of a guitar playing the fiddle part on Devil Went Down to Georgia doesn't quite cut it !!
 
#26
Ableton Live with BeatSeeker pack. It follows your drummer.
Band in a Box - it has a conductor via midi feature. Create a .wav file same name as the song to play back a recorded part. Create your own usertracks.
Presonus Notion - allows, vamps, jump in/out repeats, flexible tempo changes, it is much more than just notation.
Should also look at Presounus Studio One - which is great for recording your own tracks.
 
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#28
It's lazy. Yeah, maybe you take days and months putting it together, but it's still lazy. I have a three piece (power trio), and we do tunes most six piece bands are afraid to cover. It's all in how you arrange it. We like to throw in some crazy stuff (like a 10/8 break at the end of "Tainted Love" or a 5/4 breakdown into the Mission Impossible Theme for the guitar solo in Carole King's "It's Too Late.").

Where I live, there are more than a few bands that are so dependent upon backing tracks that their drummers are just miming. This is nonsense. If I want to dance and listen to the recorded arrangement, I'll go where there is a DJ. Nothing is more boring than a live band that sounds exactly like the record. I think that "professional cover bands" have been doing themselves a disservice for years with the notion that you have to sound exactly like the record. I was in bands where we learned every part exactly how it sounded on the record. People treated us like a DJ. They ignored the band. When I started working out unique arrangements (especially for songs most bands are afraid to cover), the bands quickly made a name for themselves as something unique and worth going out to see.

Here is a cover of David Bowie's "Life on Mars." No piano. No fancy strings. Just three players...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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#29
I agree that using samples or tracks in a bar band can pay diminishing returns. And I get that your personal experience with samples or tracks wasn't rewarding, and that you find them a personal affront. So, yeah. OK. Tyrants of tolerance, indeed.

I've been fortunate over the years to work with some exceptional musicians, most of whom worked in a range of contexts—originals, covers, studio, live theater, event bands.

Some of those players work in event bands that judiciously use samples against a click. You might find it the worst thing ever. They use them because 1) it's business, 2) in the high dollar wedding and event band market, a high degree of polish is expected, and 3) they're getting *plenty* of bookings and *plenty* enthusiastic crowd response.
 
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#30
EastCoastThump said:
I agree that using samples or tracks in a bar band can pay diminishing returns. And I get that your personal experience with samples or tracks wasn't rewarding, and that you find them a personal affront. So, yeah. OK. Tyrants of tolerance, indeed.

I've been fortunate over the years to work with some exceptional musicians, most of whom worked in a range of contexts—originals, covers, studio, live theater, event bands.

Some of those players work in event bands that judiciously use samples against a click. You might find it the worst thing ever. They use them because 1) it's business, 2) in the high dollar wedding and event band market, a high degree of polish is expected, and 3) they're getting *plenty* of bookings and *plenty* enthusiastic crowd response.
Click to expand...

I see you don't get the band name... Oh well... Also. I've never had any experiences with using samples and tracks, because I won't work with a band that uses them. When I was touring with the Marshall Tucker Band in the late 80s/early nineties (keyboards and vocals), there were quite a few bands who were flying in samples (Beach Boys, 38 Special), but we prided ourselves on big harmonies.

The "event" bands around here don't use tracks. They use lots of musicians. I was working in a four piece that did lots of events (600/per man) and the audiences were most appreciative. We did Beach Boys songs and people didn't feel slighted and quite enthusiastic. My current band, is also booking events and weddings. No one has told us that we sound unpolished or that we need to "compliment" our sound with tracks.

As for polished. That's something that comes from rehearsing and working with great musicians. Playing against a click isn't being polished. It's laziness. Furthermore, I find your entire argument to be condescending and basically a load of dookie.

My day gig is running a recording studio, teaching songwriting and performance at a performing arts center/school and we all do our best to steer our talented students away from being lazy, because of business. I find your argument to be representative of what is wrong with the entertainment industry these days.
 
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#31
donCameron said:
Playing against a click isn't being polished. It's laziness.
Click to expand...

Peace be with you. I'm responding to the thread; I'm not in the business of changing *your* mind. You're absolutely welcome to over-generalize about laziness being what's driving the Beach Boys and 38 Special (and a several generations of bands playing more modern genres).

donCameron said:
Furthermore, I find your entire argument to be condescending and basically a load of dookie.
Click to expand...

Whatever and ever amen. Again, peace be with you.
 
#33
EastCoastThump said:
Peace be with you. I'm responding to the thread; I'm not in the business of changing *your* mind. You're absolutely welcome to over-generalize about laziness being what's driving the Beach Boys and 38 Special (and a several generations of bands playing more modern genres).



Whatever and ever amen. Again, peace be with you.
Click to expand...

And also with you! :) :)

I was off my meds when I made that last response. So thankful to the great staff members for pointing out the errors in my ways!

I never said the Beach Boys or 38 special were lazy. The guys who flew in their samples worked their tushies off. They weren't sequenced or played to a click. They had a rack of Akai S1000s and they were flying in phrases all through the show. They were doing it because the band members felt they couldn't hack the vocals live, but I got a chance to listen to some board tapes of the band and the vocals were fantastic. So it was just a crutch in case be bands had an off night.

Hope this clears things up and please.... Have a peachy-swell day!!! :)
 
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#34
Yeah, *ok*. <blocking donCameron and whatever his issues are. Inviting him to return the favor so he doesn't get so *triggered* by my posts.>

To the thread: What it comes down to is what the gigs are calling for.

Yeah, if you're doing old funk, rock, and R&B covers, tracks and samples at winery gigs? It's overkill to sync so the show can fly in the odd samples, drive automated FX and processing, and control the lights.

OTOH, much of more recent dance and pop music is dripping in layers and production. Some gigs, it works to strip that back to the basic structure and just play the snot out of the structure. (Postmodern Juke Box or Lake Street Dive style.) But some gigs are about reproducing at least the key signature elements of the songs' production, some of which can't be convincingly recreated on stage with two hands.

Personally, I prefer gigs on which the live players are it. But I'm not going to turn down gigs because the client wants "Living on a Prayer" as a special, and the BL wants to trigger the high chorus harmonies from an SPD-SX to fill in behind his own high (but not quite *that* high) harmonies.

If he wanted to play bass from a hard drive all night while the bassist mimes? Yeah, imma pass on that gig. OTOH, that offer would probably go to somebody who looks better than me in hair mousse and a half-shirt.
 
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#38
There's already a HUGE thread on this, with an encyclopedia's worth of information and arguments on the topic. Next time I see it I'll link it.

Before my current band I can count on one hand how many times I've done shows with tracks. And that's with about 2000 shows under my belt (and at least 50 paying bands). The band I've been playing in since last January uses tracks, and I'm earning more than 15X yearly with this band than what I've earned yearly with any other band I ever played in. And 4X as much per gig.

I have no problem playing with tracks. The audience I play to has ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with us playing to tracks. The only people who seem to have a problem with playing to tracks are purist musicians, and I get it.

I'll add that nobody will ever stop me from playing without tracks either. If I'm playing my own music, I'll play without tracks. If I feel like I want to jam out, I'll find people to jam out with. It's not a black and white thing musically, but for me it is black and white regarding money. A band using tracks will make more money than a band playing the same music and not using tracks. If, of course, the players are all of equal talent and ability.
 
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#39
s0c9 said:
Resurrecting this thread...
So... for folk using backing tracks (not samples, but backing tracks) what are you using to accomplish this ???
I assume drummer triggers, has a click with lead in..
But PC w/ Ableton and footswitch, or some hardware sampler like Roland SPD-SX, L6 JM4, Jamman Stereo or Boss RC-3 ???

Looking into it.. want something easy.. and not even sure the BL will go down this path, but acoustic guitar, banjo, some fiddle and other "parts" are missing from songs on our current setlist (albeit far down that list). Somehow the thought of a guitar playing the fiddle part on Devil Went Down to Georgia doesn't quite cut it !!
Click to expand...

We use a Roland MT90 that uses old floppy disks lol. It has good general midi instrument sounds though (better than my Cubase VST sounds and I haven’t made the investment for better sounds).

Since you use the Soundcraft Ui mixer you’re probably better off playing tracks from a USB plugged into the mixer. A combination of basic midi sequencing for the basic click track and recording for things like lead fiddle tracks would probably work well.
 
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