Backing tracks

[filmtex]

It's lazy. Yeah, maybe you take days and months putting it together, but it's still lazy. I have a three piece (power trio), and we do tunes most six piece bands are afraid to cover. It's all in how you arrange it. We like to throw in some crazy stuff (like a 10/8 break at the end of "Tainted Love" or a 5/4 breakdown into the Mission Impossible Theme for the guitar solo in Carole King's "It's Too Late.").

Where I live, there are more than a few bands that are so dependent upon backing tracks that their drummers are just miming. This is nonsense. If I want to dance and listen to the recorded arrangement, I'll go where there is a DJ. Nothing is more boring than a live band that sounds exactly like the record. I think that "professional cover bands" have been doing themselves a disservice for years with the notion that you have to sound exactly like the record. I was in bands where we learned every part exactly how it sounded on the record. People treated us like a DJ. They ignored the band. When I started working out unique arrangements (especially for songs most bands are afraid to cover), the bands quickly made a name for themselves as something unique and worth going out to see.

Here is a cover of David Bowie's "Life on Mars." No piano. No fancy strings. Just three players...

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Don I couldn’t agree more. It’s not what you do but how you do it I always say. Very very nice job on the Simple Minds tune. I hope other Tb’ers will take a few minutes to give a listen. I’d go see you guys for sure.

 

[donCameron]

Don I couldn’t agree more. It’s not what you do but how you do it I always say. Very very nice job on the Simple Minds tune. I hope other Tb’ers will take a few minutes to give a listen. I’d go see you guys for sure.

Thanks so much man! I've been working on this band a long time. I do all the lead vocals, btw. It's actually an expansion on my solo (acoustic guitar) gigs. The philosophy behind both is to perform songs that everyone knows and loves, but live bands seldom attempt. (even if they are using tracks).

I read a Paul McCartney interview decades ago, where he proclaimed that know one could ever perform a song like "I Am The Walrus" live. I decided to call BS on that and started doing it as a solo piece. I incorporated a lot of the "hooks" in the song (bits of the string arrangement) and it never fails to bring down the house. The best thing is that the audience automatically starts filling in parts. It never fails. After the first "I am the eggman!" they all go "WHOOOOOOO!"

I also do "The Waiting" by Tom Petty and they always chime in on the answer "Yeah yeah."

That is one thing that you really can't do with tracks. I don't care how complicated your set up is. If it follows the drummer and/or triggers your lighting. It's not going to generate the kind of excitement and more importantly, anywhere near the same amount of enthusiastic audience participation.

Using tracks you might be able to keep people on the dance floor and they most likely will act accordingly if you through in a big drop or a break down, but that's just like getting a rise out of cattle with a cattle prod. And it's absolutely boring for the band. It's easier to get stale (relatively quickly) when you know exactly what is going to happen next. Even playing to a score has a lot of variables that you just can't preprogram.

Anyway... Back to my original point. Instead of using tracks to enhance my solo performance, I added my favorite drummer and a guy on guitar who I hadn't played with in thirtyfive years. I've been playing with the drummer since I switched from keyboards (my main instrument) to bass seventeen years ago.

Everyone who hears it is excited about it and it's just such a blast figuring out how to make a song work, that no one would ever dream of trying as a guitar/bass/drums trio. We worked on the Hall and Oates song "One on One" for months trying to figure out how to get an all keyboard song to groove without any keyboards.

Anyway. Thanks again.

 

[donCameron]

Resurrecting this thread...
So... for folk using backing tracks (not samples, but backing tracks) what are you using to accomplish this ???
I assume drummer triggers, has a click with lead in..
But PC w/ Ableton and footswitch, or some hardware sampler like Roland SPD-SX, L6 JM4, Jamman Stereo or Boss RC-3 ???

Looking into it.. want something easy.. and not even sure the BL will go down this path, but acoustic guitar, banjo, some fiddle and other "parts" are missing from songs on our current setlist (albeit far down that list). Somehow the thought of a guitar playing the fiddle part on Devil Went Down to Georgia doesn't quite cut it !!

No disrespect intended, but from an audiences perspective, wouldn't it be a bit strange witnessing a musical duel where one of the participants isn't present?

Now this is just coming from my own personal experience (but I am sixty and have been performing professionally since I was fifteen), I've found that giving the audience a new and different take on a classic song can be more rewarding for both listener and performer as long as it is done well. You could have the guitar be the fiddle and the bass be the devil.

Not trying to disparage here. I just feel that people shouldn't underestimate their audiences and how accommodating they can be to hearing something new.

 

[donCameron]

I promise this will be the last post I make in this thread. Several postings mentioned the audience "not minding" or "not knowing the difference" etc. Just paraphrasing to make a point. And the point is... Where's the fun in that?

I think my biggest argument against tracks is how it limits the amount of spontaneous participation between the audience and performers.

Tony Bennett, who has been rightfully lauded as the greatest song stylist, made a living doing his interpretation of songs.

Tony says that he has never had anything less than a sold out show. That says a lot for doing it your way...

 

[Joe Nerve]

Saying that playing to tracks is the lazy way out shows a lack of understanding of what this is all about. My band could put their time into doing their own rendition of songs, rewrite, rehearse, and get a 3 piece band to accomplish what others might think is impossible - OR, we could put all that time and energy into learning tunes note for note, and being able to play 5 to 10 new songs every weekend, impeccably, without having to waste additional hours in the studio during the week, rehearsing. Trust me when I tell you that laziness has absolutely nothing to do with it. It comes down to efficiency and earning potential.

I'll add also that there's a set of skills that goes into playing with tracks that is as challenging to the player as learning to jam well is. My band has absolutely no breaks between songs, ever. We play 45 min to an hour set where if something is going wrong, we have to figure it out. I've had to deal with heavy duty IEM problems, straps that snapped (literally broke) off my bass, tuning issues, cable problems, and all the other things a musician will typically have to deal with - while keeping a smile on my face and making it look as though any bass downtime was intentional. I also have to be able to go from one song right into the next, remembering how that song starts that I only heard for the first time, 2 days earlier. Trust me when I tell you that's a HUGE challenge, especially when bass starts the rhythm and comes in on the one. Playing also has to be dead on, but that's not a challenge for me (I've been at this for decades). I like it because the entire band IS dead on, and guarantees that we're going to be tight.

Lazy? That's the equivalent of me calling a band not using tracks, stupid.

Feel I want to add also that I really don't get why people get so defensive about this. Nothing at all is stopping me from playing my own music either. Nor my own rendition of tunes if I want to. I still jam with bands, still play lots of loosely based original material, still get to improvise (even in my main band). It's not, as I stated earlier, as black an white as some people are making it. It's about choosing wisely to be the most efficient, money making machine you can possibly be. I would sooooooo much rather be playing and earning lots of money every weekend than spending money and time in the studio during the week rehearsing. I put my practice time in under my own roof, at my convenience, without having to work around everyone else's schedule.

I could go on and on and on and on.... but I'll quit. At least until I get the rebuttal .

 

[AaronVonRock]

I don’t think backing tracks are lazy or cheating, but I do think they are lame. But I also think cover bands are lame, so a cover band using backing tracks doesn’t really make them any lamer for me than if they weren’t. Well, maybe just a bit.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I think working a day job as a postal worker, electrician, or banker is lame if what you really love doing is playing music .

 

[AaronVonRock]

I think working a day job as a postal worker, electrician, or banker is lame if what you really love doing is playing music .

What if you love both banking and playing music? Double win.

 

[EastCoastThump]

Curious for those with experience playing against Ableton in the last couple years: what have your experiences been with Ableton's BeatSeeker syncing to your live drummer?

Also curious about bands that have some IEM mixes without the click. In larger working bands in which the BL uses <Follow Actions> in Ableton, is the BL using an onstage talkback mic to make sure the large ensemble catches the on-the-fly changes? And if so, do you have problems with him over-using the d@mn3d mic?

 

[donCameron]

So many things to rebut here, albeit in the most respectful way I can muster...

First... After reading all of this, I kind of feel sorry for you. It sounds quite stressful. I've been earning my living solely from music (performing/recording/producing/teaching) for forty-five years and even when I was doing the 5 nights a week dance band thing, I've never been in situation where you needed/had to/or just wanted to have five to ten new songs ready every week. That's insane, IMHO.

If you are a full-time musician, you're talking about learning 260 new tunes a year, minimum. My first question would be, why? Is that part of your marketing strategy? Do you and your band pick the songs each week or do you do lots of requests? Just figuring out what you would want to play (after learning 5-10 new songs a week for years) would seem to be a major hassle. I guess the upside would be that you'd never get bored of playing the same exact songs the same way every night, because your entire set could conceivably be turned over every month!

I do have trouble seeing how this is more efficient. Every week you are learning songs note for note. What you didn't mention is that if you are using tracks, regardless of how simple the parts you add are, someone still needs to be programming/playing/mixing/mastering all that new content. That's a ton of work, no matter how you look at it. I'd be curious to know what parts you add, via tracks. Does your entire band work on these, or does one person in the band handle all the creation? Or do you have an outside source that you pay?

I wanna say this to the entire community now. I jumped in quick on the using tracks is "lazy" train, but after reading your post, I take all that back. It's anything but lazy.

But, and please don't take offence as this is just my opinion... It doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun. I am always smiling when I play, because I am thoroughly enjoying myself. Again, I'm sorry to hear that you've had so many problems playing on stage. I guess I'm blessed.

One thing you didn't mention in your post was whether or not you are enjoying yourself. You talk about being the most "efficient money making machine" and "earning potential," but nothing about whether you're having any fun.

Anyway... Hats off to you man! May your straps never fail you again...

 

[s0c9]

No disrespect intended, but from an audiences perspective, wouldn't it be a bit strange witnessing a musical duel where one of the participants isn't present?

Now this is just coming from my own personal experience (but I am sixty and have been performing professionally since I was fifteen), I've found that giving the audience a new and different take on a classic song can be more rewarding for both listener and performer as long as it is done well. You could have the guitar be the fiddle and the bass be the devil.

Not trying to disparage here. I just feel that people shouldn't underestimate their audiences and how accommodating they can be to hearing something new.

None taken... I guess the perspective depends on the venue/audience? In my neck of the woods, the management wants what the punters come to drink, eat and dance to.. mostly classics mixed with newer stuff for the young uns.
I'm not a pro - meaning I don't make a living from playing - but I take what I do seriously, and as you said.. one has to play to the audience.
There's not much wiggle room in Country music...

 

[donCameron]

None taken...
There's not much wiggle room in Country music...

You got that right. I tried to make a go as a country writer after I left MTB.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I'm having lots of fun, it doesn't take me as much time to learn 5-10 tunes as it might others cuz I've been doing a long time and it's gotten much easier, and I only mentioned the strap thing because it happened this past weekend with an almost brand new Planet Waves locking strap. Here's my review "Don't buy this." Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Planet Waves Planet Lock Guitar Strap, Polypropylene, Black

And I could go on and on rebutting also, but I'll just keep it at this. I love doing what I do. So much so that I don't have to come on forums to start cutting into choices other people make. I do what I do, and defend it not so much for me, but for others who wish to choose the same path. I have nothing against people who think it's blasphemous to play with backing tracks and I don't go around taking stabs at them, calling them lazy, stupid, or whatever. Same as I don't knock people for putting tort guards on their beautiful basses and making them ugly.

To earn a living as a performing musician in 2017 is IMO one of the toughest career paths a person can pursue. Using tracks makes doing so infinitely more possible. I try to always have young/new musicians in mind when I post. If I can help them attain their goals, that makes me happy. It doesn't make me happy to knock them down if they're not doing what I do, or what I believe is best.

I'll quit it now .

 

[donCameron]

I don't know if it's just this thread that brings out so much passive aggression, or if it's running rampant all over TB. I guess I'll have to try my luck at a few more before making any generalizations.

Or maybe I'm just getting on someone's nerves. Personally, I would never disparage another person's instrument choice. I think the tort guards that came with my P basses are lovely, BTW.

 

[EastCoastThump]

What you're reading as passive-aggressive is people trying hard to be polite when they're telling you that you're crossing the line from being just wrong to being wrong and insulting. Just the culture of the site. Since TB's policy and mods (unlike the rest of the interwebz) actively discourage users from being a d**k, even TBers who are in-your-face direct in person tend to be polite here, or at least try.

Most get used to it; some don't. It ain't for everybody.

 

[seamonkey]

Backing tracks may be a bad term. It may be a band member can play the keyboards, but prefers to play a solo on another instrument while a part they recorded on a keyboard plays. Many recording bands are like this, many great keyboard or guitar parts were played by a bassist or drummer on the recording.

Modern software can jump around, it's no longer a static playback like playing-along to a flat recording. Even ducking and EQ, and intensity - play less complicated when the soloist is quiet, then build up intensity when the soloist blasts out. All this can be done, and takes good talent to come up with the changes.
it's all good in my book. It takes some good talent to pull this off. When I enjoy a good solo, I'm not focusing on the background musicians but it's kind of nice when they lock step an click to play off each other. Which is totally possible when a musician plans what's going to play during their solo.

 

[donCameron]

Backing tracks may be a bad term. It may be a band member can play the keyboards, but prefers to play a solo on another instrument while a part they recorded on a keyboard plays. Many recording bands are like this, many great keyboard or guitar parts were played by a bassist or drummer on the recording.

Modern software can jump around, it's no longer a static playback like playing-along to a flat recording. Even ducking and EQ, and intensity - play less complicated when the soloist is quiet, then build up intensity when the soloist blasts out. All this can be done, and takes good talent to come up with the changes.
it's all good in my book. It takes some good talent to pull this off. When I enjoy a good solo, I'm not focusing on the background musicians but it's kind of nice when they lock step an click to play off each other. Which is totally possible when a musician plans what's going to play during their solo.

I get where you're coming from. For the last twenty-plus years my main gig has been recording and producing. I am constantly playing to tracks I've built up from scratch. Most of the band recordings I do are live Jazz and Classical events that happen at the performing arts center where I work. But all of the custom music I produce for video backgrounds, radio spots and k-12 curriculum are me playing against my own tracks that I build from scratch. I could probably start a great side career producing tracks for bands, but does tend to get old pretty quick.

That's why I'm so gungho on my current trio playing things with clever arrangements to fill in the sound. Even though everything is arranged with intros, outros, time changes and all that, there is still a lot of room to play around and not lose the big and tight sound we are getting.

After I know a song inside out I like to start playing with it at gigs. Coming up with new ways to back a solo. We do one song by the police (Walking on the Moon) where my guitar player insisted he needed to play a solo. Anyone familiar with the song would see that the bass line sting plays doesn't do much to support a crazy solo, so I came up with a brand new bass figure that drives the guitar part, doesn't lose the overall feel and makes the solo fit.

I guess my day job has put me off the tracks...

 

[jimmyb]

Anyone out there wish they never started a thread?

 

[Charlzm]

I'm leading a classic rock cover band.
We auditioned a couple drummers. Settled on a slick Los Angeles transplant and started getting to work. As he started to feel comfortable, he suggested we use some backing tracks in our sets. (Horns/keys/backing vocals).
With some adjustments, I must admit, it does sound good. Really good.
Using maybe 10 songs out of a 40 song setlist.
Let's us play songs we couldn't pull off b4 and really opens up lots of possibilities.
But I'm not gonna lie, it feels like cheating. Guitar player hates em. Says we are a karaoke band.
Opinions split down the middle.
I know pro bands use em... But where is the line between adding to ur live sound and being Millie Vanillie?
What say u?

Only been in originals bands for the last 20 years - we wouldn't write a song we couldn't play. We have added some atmospherics and synths and extra guitar tracks to studio versions, but we did not duplicate those parts live.

 

[Joe Nerve]

FWIW... One of the guys in my band suggested I check out our band reviews if I get a chance. I've been playing with them for almost a year now. Didn't know these existed before seeing them last night. To me they give testament to the power of using tracks. And being nice people .

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I'll add after just reading the first review again that at the cocktail hour we never uses tracks. The 3 piece they're talking about is a 3 piece.