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"Backwards" effect?

#61
TimeBender added...

SWELLISH PEDALS updated, again

BOSS
- Slow Gear
- PS-3/RPS-10​

BEHRINGER
- SM200 Slow Motion​

BYOC
- Lazy Sprocket​

CHICAGO IRON
- Parachute Wah
​
DANELECTRO
- Back Talk
- Wasabi AD-1 Forward-Reverse Delay​

DOD
- FX-15​

GUYATONE
- SV2 Slow Volume
- SV-M5Mighty Micro​

JOHNSON
- J-Station​

JOYO
- D-Seed​

LINE6
- DL-4
- Echo Park’s Swell option
- M-series 5/9/13​

DIGITECH
- DHP-66/Studio 5000
- GNX4
- RP200A
- XP300 Space Station
- TimeBender​

EHX
- Attack Decay
- Microsynth’s attack delay control​

MADBEAN (DIY PCB)
- Rust Bucket (Based on the EHX Attack Decay)​

MAESTRO
- Envelope Modifier​

MALEKKO
- A.D. (attack decay)
- Sneak Attack​

MOOER
- Slow Engine​

PAiA
- Gator​

PIGTRONIX
- Attack-Sustain
- Philosopher King​

PRESCRIPTION ELECTRONICS
- Experience​

SNARLING DOGS
- Erogenous Zone (Volume pedal with a "click" added at end of sweep)​

TC ELECTRONIC
- Flashback​

TOM's LINE
- Slow Hand [volume swell in a 1590A!]​

VFE
- Bumblebee
- Bumblebee Jr (no compressor, just the swell)​

WALRUS
- Descent​

ZOOM
- B1ON
- B3
- CDR
- G2
- MS-60B?
- MS100BT​




I've always wanted to build the BYOC clone of the Slow Gear, and I will – eventually, but thanks to this thread I've recently found some DIY info on the PAiA Gator and the Prescription Electronics Experience.

Now I don't know which one to build first.
​
 
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#63
BTW another option that I found with my mad Google skillz is a backwards simulator, the "Erogenous Zone" by Snarling Dogs. It's a volume pedal with a "click" at the end of its sweep to simulate a backwards attack.

Another thing is that the Guyatone Slow Volume can incorporate an envelope filter to imitate the sweep of a backwards volume swell--or at least, that's my understanding.

Sounds kind of interesting but sort of "close, but no cigar" for my purposes (but who knows, I haven't tried it). Besides, if anyone else is interested it might serve their purposes.
 
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#65
Thanks everyone again for all of the suggestions! Just an update... I don't have any vet bills anymore :( so with some extra money I bought the TC Electronic Flashback (the X4 version, because a looper sounded nice to have).

I'm not sure what I was expecting--before starting this thread I didn't even know what a reverse delay was--but I find the reverse delay, at least the ones on this pedal, difficult to work with. For instance, if you play a note that's longer than the delay time, it "chops up" the note. Do all digital delays work like that? Obviously this thing has a learning curve!

I think maybe what I was expecting was that it would start playing the reverse note when the volume of the note in the dry signal fell to near-zero... Or something like that. Oh well. Reasons to practice. I do like the looper on this device.
 
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#68
veryvery said:
Thanks everyone again for all of the suggestions! Just an update... I don't have any vet bills anymore :( so with some extra money I bought the TC Electronic Flashback (the X4 version, because a looper sounded nice to have).

I'm not sure what I was expecting--before starting this thread I didn't even know what a reverse delay was--but I find the reverse delay, at least the ones on this pedal, difficult to work with. For instance, if you play a note that's longer than the delay time, it "chops up" the note. Do all digital delays work like that? Obviously this thing has a learning curve!

I think maybe what I was expecting was that it would start playing the reverse note when the volume of the note in the dry signal fell to near-zero... Or something like that. Oh well. Reasons to practice. I do like the looper on this device.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your vet bills and subsequent lack thereof. Never easy that... :sorry:

How much was the X4? ProGuitarShop has knocked down the Alter Ego from $279 to $150 – a basic looper costs about a $C-note, and with the AE you get the delay thrown in for $50! I know the AE/X4's looper time isn't as long as a dedicated looper, but I just want to experiment and if I like it I can get a more lengthy complicated looper later.

However, I don't know if the AE does the X4's reverse delay, they do share a lot of cross functionality. I'll have to check that out...

...AE does "Reverse Modulated", which isn't explained at all in the manual.
However, it's described here: TC Electronic Alter Ego X4 Vintage Echo | Sound On Sound

I guess you can make your own Tone Prints as well and save 4 of them onto either unit.

Have you tried the reverse with "dry kill", would that work better for the effect you want?
 
#69
Feral Feline said:
Sorry to hear about your vet bills and subsequent lack thereof. Never easy that... :sorry:
Click to expand...

Thanks. I miss her. :(

Feral Feline said:
How much was the X4? ProGuitarShop has knocked down the Alter Ego from $279 to $150 – a basic looper costs about a $C-note, and with the AE you get the delay thrown in for $50! I know the AE/X4's looper time isn't as long as a dedicated looper, but I just want to experiment and if I like it I can get a more lengthy complicated looper later.

However, I don't know if the AE does the X4's reverse delay, they do share a lot of cross functionality. I'll have to check that out...

...AE does "Reverse Modulated", which isn't explained at all in the manual.
However, it's described here: TC Electronic Alter Ego X4 Vintage Echo | Sound On Sound

I guess you can make your own Tone Prints as well and save 4 of them onto either unit.

Have you tried the reverse with "dry kill", would that work better for the effect you want?
Click to expand...


I bought the Flashback X4 for $149 incl. shipping from Reverb, it was a B-stock unit. New they're $250 or so, but you see them occasionally in the $140-160 range on Reverb and Ebay.

I hadn't read about the Alter Ego. The Google gods tell me that the Alter Ego has more "spacey" delays, whereas the Flashback has more "traditional" delays. Why on earth does TC Electronic make these two into different products? Weird. After reading about it I now *almost* regret buying the Flashback instead of the Alter Ego--spacey delays are way more fun to play with. Almost. The reason why I'm glad now I didn't end up getting the Alter Ego is that, according to your link, you can't silence the try signal in the Alter Ego's reverse delay unless you turn on the internal "kill switch." There's no need for that with the Flashback, you just turn the "feedback" knob all the way down.

Don't know if there are any differences in the looper function. So far I found the looper's length to be long enough (I've tried a slow, 8-chord pattern--that's long enough for most people, I'd imagine. Haven't tried longer.) As a side note, one of the great uses of a looper, above and beyond the layering, is that it makes it really easy to finetune the settings on your other pedals. Put the looper first in the loop, record a loop, and now twiddle the knobs on your other pedals.

My difficulty with the reverse delay--and maybe all reverse delays do this--is that it reverses based on the delay tempo. Let's say you set it to a half second. It'll just reverse everything that it heard in the past half second, and so on. So If I play a one-second note, starting right at the onset of the delay interval, it'll first play the first half of the note backwards, then the second half of the note backwards. If I play 4 quarter-second notes (1234), against starting right at the onset of the delay interval, it'll first play the first two backwards (that would be 21), then the second two (43). Of course, not everything I play falls on the onset of the interval, so you end up with a very "choppy" result. It's kind of hard to explain, as you can see. I'm guessing that all reverse delays do this and that I just have to practice to get the timing right, and that I have to write my reverse parts around this.
 
#70
Steal of a Deal you got!

Totally agree with you about TC E separating the Alter Ego and X4, the two in one would be killer. There are some things that the X4 can do that the Alter Ego can't, maybe.

PingPong
LoFi

Those aren't on the AE
Yet, if these are available as TonePrints ( and the AE's algos as TonePrints for the X4), of if you can program them in using the TonePrint Editor and then load them in the 4 user slots...

Still kinda torn between the two.


In other backwards-effect news...

Picked up my BYOC Slow Gear clone PCB last night from the local rep. I've had great dealings with this guy.

So now I've gotta build that board up and attempt some backwards-fauxwards tomfoolery. I'm thinking of adding a small compressor-sustain circuit after it as well, house both circuits in the same enclosure ala VFE's Bumble Bee. Prolly call it the "Granny Gear" with the graphic of an old MTB-race poster that looks something like this:

Invalid Link Removed
 
#71
Here's a bit of the Flashback / Alter Ego differences from the TC Electronic web site:

Invalid Link Removed

Basically, they are very similar. All of the toneprints work on both of them (and there are a boatload--i haven't even began to scratch the surface). So if you want to rely on toneprints, or if you want to edit your own thing, it doesn't matter.

So contrary to what that earlier article said, you don't need to set the Alter Ego to dry kill--there are toneprints for that...

Awesome pic, by the way :) I should look into getting a nice swell pedal or active volume pedal. I have a cheap old passive one, but I think I need a volume boost with it.
 
#73
veryvery said:
Sorry to revive this ancient zombie thread, but I have found exactly what I was looking for: the (reissued) Electro-Harmonix Attack Decay Reverse Tape Simulator. It's immediately become my favorite pedal evvah. It takes some fiddling to find the sweet spot, but once there you sound exactly like you were recorded backwards. I can get very close to the Mick Karn backwards sound in the OP.
Click to expand...
I was reading this thread thinking the EH Attack Decay is superior to Mooer slow gear (never tried the Boss but mooer reduces overall volume), Mallekko Attack Decay and Sneak Attack. I tried them all. EH Attack Decay into Prunes & Custard is one of my favorite sounds these days. But it sounds like Mick Karn was playing into a loop that was reversed. He got real good at it (just like the Beatles did). Many loopers can be reversed. But Real backwards delay? The best I know of is on the Red Panda Particle. But it can't be a Long phrase because at some set point the reverse copy is played, too much data is difficult. The Memory Man Hazari is a very musical reverse deley, not long either.
 
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#74
The reverse delay model in the Zoom B1(X)on, G1(X)on, MS-70CDR e.c.t, which got a max delay time of 2 seconds, is actually a really great sounding reverse delay too, but as said the sample time that is played in reverse is limited to 2 seconds, still plenty to give the effect of playing backwards with the reverse delay effect high in the mix.

The current reissue of the Danelectro Backtalk is great as well.
 
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#75
Best I've used in a standalone pedal is the Line 6 Echo Park.

Also, the old Danelectro Back Talk (recently repackaged in a more compact housing) does a good job.

There are probably more in the digital realm that I am unaware of.

Keep in mind, these things are only as good as the user. It is essentially a delay with the source note muted and the reversed source note as a delay, so it's "late." Composing actual reverse lines and melodies that are musical and make sense takes some practice.
 
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