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Baer Amplification Megathread!

#301
triplelutz said:
I like this discussion... but again, the reality is that this cab (the ML112) does something unique and special. It's a bass cab and really has a great voice. Tweeter or not, this cab is a strong offering into the market and the clarity and growl that comes with the cab is pretty unbeatable!
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I have to tell you that I still struggle with the term "mid driver" when we are talking about drivers capable of reaching 7k and above. In my book that's easily enough top end that these should really be called high frequency drivers. Look at it this way. The TREBLE control on our amp is centered right around 5k and the BRIGHT switch is at 7k. Now, everyone clearly accepts that as the amps "high frequency" controls, so why does a driver capable or reproducing 10k still have to be called a "mid driver"? I have to agree with Dan, that you really have to listen to what this cab can do, rather than simply putting it into the category of just another cab without a tweeter.
 
#304
billfitzmaurice said:
Look at the Faital Pro data sheet, it's shown there. As far as needing the extension of a tweeter, anything above 8kHz only gives you hiss. Now, what's the number one complaint about cabs with tweeters?
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Neither of the Faital 6's is intelligible past 4k. Both have large 10db dips off-axis before 4k (before the breakup modes kick in I'd have to assume).

Beyond 5k, you're 10db or more down off-axis almost uniformly.

They do a lot better than the 18sound, Beyma and B&C models in the same class.

So yes, an improvement, but usable extension to 8k? Not if the charts can be believed. Maybe with a microphone on the mid.
 
#305
R Baer said:
I have to tell you that I still struggle with the term "mid driver" when we are talking about drivers capable of reaching 7k and above. In my book that's easily enough top end that these should really be called high frequency drivers. Look at it this way. The TREBLE control on our amp is centered right around 5k and the BRIGHT switch is at 7k. Now, everyone clearly accepts that as the amps "high frequency" controls, so why does a driver capable or reproducing 10k still have to be called a "mid driver"? I have to agree with Dan, that you really have to listen to what this cab can do, rather than simply putting it into the category of just another cab without a tweeter.
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+1 Again, I'll say that potential buyers should NOT lump this in with most of the other 12/6 executions. Much different voicing and tone. Less of the upper mids that you don't want (or at least that most don't want in that 1-2K gank area), and a much more extension into the upper treble. I also like the low end response better than the 'off the shelf' 3012LF.... more low mid punch and a bit less deep bass extension and what sounds like higher efficiency to me.... more usable volume without having to pump in massive wattage.

That being said, again, there is some information lost in that super sizzle upper treble region, and for some (i.e., gospel MTD slappers, etc.), this cab would probably not be optimal. However, for a classic 70's J Bass slap tone... wonderful!!!!! And, the big advantage is you can dial in some grit and still have it sound good way up top.

I will be ordering the ML212 when it becomes available. This is the PERFECT cab for a 'modern' (i.e., ash/maple with nickel wounds) P Bass cab for me!:bassist: Similar but 'better' tone than my beloved AE410 for that vibe, and a bit more 'cart friendly' format (i.e. a bit taller and skinnier than the 410).
 
#306
KJung said:
I will be ordering the ML212 when it becomes available. This is the PERFECT cab for a 'modern' (i.e., ash/maple with nickel wounds) P Bass cab for me!:bassist: Similar but 'better' tone than my beloved AE410 for that vibe, and a bit more 'cart friendly' format (i.e. a bit taller and skinnier than the 410).
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This brings up an interesting point: Roger, do you foresee the ML212 providing a similar tonal profile to the ML112 (i.e., same sound, but bigger box), or do you think it'll sound fairly different? I like what I'm hearing about the ML112, but as I'm a single-cab solution kinda guy, I'm not really in the market for 8-ohm cabs. The ML212, however, has me very interested....
 
#307
Hollow Man said:
This brings up an interesting point: Roger, do you foresee the ML212 providing a similar tonal profile to the ML112 (i.e., same sound, but bigger box), or do you think it'll sound fairly different? I like what I'm hearing about the ML112, but as I'm a single-cab solution kinda guy, I'm not really in the market for 8-ohm cabs. The ML212, however, has me very interested....
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+1 I'm a one cab guy, and I have my small cab needs filled to overflowing:D

I'm assuming the ML212 will have similar tonality with a bit more absolute low end than the 2 x ML112 stack, assuming it behaves like most other 212 versus 2 x 112 offerings from other companies.

It is a bit heavier than I'm used to (around 70 pounds), but it looks to be an absolute masher, and I LOVE the voicing/mid driver, etc. of the ML112! It should work well on the Kart-a-bag Super 600 (which is what I use for my AE212).
 
#308
The more perceived low end in 2x12's vs 1x12s is an Equal Loudness thing. More sensitivity down low means more minimum volume which means more apparent loudness down low.

Bottom line, the frequency response curves should be identical (within a small margin of error) if cabinet tuning and internal space are identical, and the crossover slopes are the same, etc.
 
#309
rpsands said:
The more perceived low end in 2x12's vs 1x12s is an Equal Loudness thing. More sensitivity down low means more minimum volume which means more apparent loudness down low.

Bottom line, the frequency response curves should be identical (within a small margin of error) if cabinet tuning and internal space are identical, and the crossover slopes are the same, etc.
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I was talking about a 212 versus a 2 x 112 stack from the line/company. Just like 2 x 210 versus 410, they always seem to sound a bit different from each other. Could be slightly different tuning, different crossover setting, or just the impact of two drivers in the same box versus separate boxes.
 
#310
KJung said:
I was talking about a 212 versus a 2 x 112 stack from the line/company. Just like 2 x 210 versus 410, they always seem to sound a bit different from each other. Could be slightly different tuning, different crossover setting, or just the impact of two drivers in the same box versus separate boxes.
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It's very typical to see tuning differences in mainstream cab companies because it's rare that they actually measure their cabinets (And sometimes they'll tune single cabinets higher than big cabinets, to get more perceived low end/midbass humps).

It seems more likely to me that Roger and co. have taken the high road of designing the cabs to sound identical (same tuning and interior space) based on what I know about the company. But it's really an unknown at this point.
 
#311
rpsands said:
It's very typical to see tuning differences in mainstream cab companies because it's rare that they actually measure their cabinets (And sometimes they'll tune single cabinets higher than big cabinets, to get more perceived low end/midbass humps).

It seems more likely to me that Roger and co. have taken the high road of designing the cabs to sound identical (same tuning and interior space) based on what I know about the company. But it's really an unknown at this point.
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Makes sense.
 
#313
NWB said:
Oh, this sounds like a winner to me. Time to start saving...

Like Ken, I'd be shooting for the 212.
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For those of you who haven't checked out the Baer cabs and head at the last few NAMM shows, aside from getting NAMM awards for Roger's gear, the response on the ML-212 and Valkyrie head were extremely positive. Roger's been working on the 1x12 box for a long time getting components and crossover exactly where he wanted them.
I must have used at least 10 versions of the same box, with the slightest variations in each. Actually, we probably heard a lot more than that.
 
#314
rpsands said:
But can it do it 45 degrees off-axis?
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This may get me in a little hot water, but I have to say that while I certainly believe in the engineering part of cabinet development, I don't take charts and graphs for gospel in how a cabinet performs in the real world. A big part of the design process is listening and making corrections until your ear says it's right. I was fortunate enough to have Hadrian Feraud try out a pair of ML112's along with the Valkyrie at a dinner and jazz club here in LA. As he was playing, I made a point of walking all around the club and really listening to the sound in various locations. Of course the mids drop off axis, but I was really pleased with just how well the sound stayed consistent going from center to the extreme sides of the club. The bass remained clear and focused and the mid definition stayed intact all over the club.

So yes, while the charts tell you that the mids are dropping off axis, experience with the cab tells me that it does deliver a very consistent tone across a pretty wide area of the stage. The same holds true for situations where the cab may only be a couple feet behind you. At that distance, the mid is way below ear level and very off axis, but it still manages to be heard quite well.
 
#315
R Baer said:
So yes, while the charts tell you that the mids are dropping off axis, experience with the cab tells me that it does deliver a very consistent tone across a pretty wide area of the stage. The same holds true for situations where the cab may only be a couple feet behind you. At that distance, the mid is way below ear level and very off axis, but it still manages to be heard quite well.
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I agree.
 
#317
KJung said:
+1 I'm a one cab guy, and I have my small cab needs filled to overflowing:D

I'm assuming the ML212 will have similar tonality with a bit more absolute low end than the 2 x ML112 stack, assuming it behaves like most other 212 versus 2 x 112 offerings from other companies.

It is a bit heavier than I'm used to (around 70 pounds), but it looks to be an absolute masher, and I LOVE the voicing/mid driver, etc. of the ML112! It should work well on the Kart-a-bag Super 600 (which is what I use for my AE212).
Click to expand...

I talked to Roger today and I asked that question-he said he felt the 212 vs the 2xML12 stack sounded pretty close with just a bit more bottom end in the stack.Maybe he can chime in on that.I love the idea of that 212-it does look like a masher!
 
#318
KJung said:
+1000 As I've stated way too many times, upper midrange dispersion is not at all what the lab charts would suggest with bass guitar amplification.
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I agree and for me,that goes for the total package.I love reading all the specs but at some point I just have to plug it in and listen to it.
 
#319
I can tell from the clips that this is THE sound that I chase in a cab. But, like ken, I'll probably wait until the 2x12 comes out as I too am I one cab, one less trip guy. Then I could justify having a 1x12 version at home.
 

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