Balance K Tribute repair & major MOD

[Bruce Johnson]

Congratulations on your success, winning the battle with heavy tools and a strong attitude! It surrendered without too much of a fight. Now you will heal it, and it will live on, knowing the price to be paid if it misbehaves again.

 

[Gary_M]

(MOD #1) Method of Destruction.
First I took a cabinet scraper to the finish either side of the fingerboard...thinning to raw wood so maybe it wouldn't chip weird.
Then I cut/chiseled the nut slot...clean all the way through the board to the neck beam.
View attachment 4182831
Then chiseled down at an angle to get a bite on the board via the slot... (little wedge against peghead veneers to be chiseled out later...acts as a fulcrum)
View attachment 4182832
Then heat.... and patience.
(It was a well glued fb)
I relaxed the first two posts on my neck jig to allow me to flex the neck back a bit... whilst giving a rap to the nut-chisel......
.....annnnnd pop.... (uhhh!)...slip the palette knife in.
....gently now....(mmmm that's it)... not too fast. ...more heat!.... yeah baby...
View attachment 4182839
It took about 2 hours. The wenge ? Didn't survive.
I never liked that board anyway.
View attachment 4182844
Here's a tip. Don't over torch heat the cheap knife you're using to slip in intermittently for a little accelerated glue melt.
(Duh...Red hot= scorch wood...break tool.)
View attachment 4182847
All in all it was a very successful amputation.
And... I had a nice lunch of Shredded Fiber-O's !

Anyone remember the tricolor optics in this fingerboard?
... yeah... they don't work any more.
View attachment 4182867

Sorry you have to do such major surgery, Kev. Having said that, it's plain to see that my ceremonial dance has worked a treat!

Looks like you got that board off without too much drama.

 

[daveman50]

No blood? -- ya did good!

 

[juancaminos]

OMG! I hurt all over and I have major heart burn. I should not have looked...

 

[ctmullins]

Wow, this thread should come with a warning label!

 

[Reedt2000]

That's when I put on the bunny suit and double rubber gloves, and grab the heavy tools.

Pics or it didn't...

(Sorry, I'll show myself out )

This is a great process to watch, I'd bet many of us have had basses with shot rods, or opportunity to grab something cool on the cheap cause the rod was bad. I know I have (almost did a few weeks ago but was freaked out about the idea of trying what you're doing).

You've got my support (whatever that's worth ) and I'm stoked to follow this thread

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Watching with interest. I need to do a fingerboard removal and neck straightening/reinforcement on an old fretless bass, that has none. I already had a couple ideas for possible courses of action... might pick up a few more here.

 

[dwizum]

This is a great process to watch, I'd bet many of us have had basses with shot rods, or opportunity to grab something cool on the cheap cause the rod was bad. I know I have (almost did a few weeks ago but was freaked out about the idea of trying what you're doing).

Personally, I have found that fretboard removal is about like neck carving or fretwork. It was intimidating before I'd done it the very first time, and I was hesitant to even try. It seemed like one of those things only wizards can pull off. But, I got my courage up and had a go, and afterwards, I found myself thinking, "that wasn't so bad after all. In fact it was kind of fun!"

I wouldn't want to try to do it motivated by money (i.e. buying a bass with a broken truss rod, fixing it, and trying to sell at a profit) but don't let it scare you off from a project!

 

[Rôckhewer]

Ok. So what happened.
First a backstory...let it be known that this was my 3rd build.
I'd like to think I'm a bit less of a greenhorn these days.
ALSO this bass was NOT initially a commissioned bass, nor was it meant to be sold.
I built it for me... as part of my self training.
Someone saw a picture of it... and offered me a ridiculous amount of money to part with it.
It played fantastic then... so I sold it.

Did the neck warp or bow out of whack causing the truss rod issue? No.
In fact... absolutely not.
I got the bass on the jig, tuned to pitch... checked it with a notched straight edge ... and it was damn near perfect. Just a silver of relief ... almost completely flat really...( given that last crank that broke the nut.)
Honestly I think the rod was weak.... but that's more speculation.
Does the action suck now vs 6 years ago?... marginally ... yeah.
WAS THERE...any downward adjustment travel left on the bridge saddles, that could have been used to correct the action once the neck had...
... "settled in"???
.... ahhh... No.
The bridge is bottomed out. (There's yer sign)
This was before I started doing body/neck break angle...and as a "flat" bass... It doesn't have the correct board to bridge elevation. (...my bad)
So...the only recourse left the new owner to achieve better action... was to try to straighten the neck... some more...
It could have been remedied by recessing the bridge about a millimeter... but you know... hindsight.

What's the fix?
The new board will be compound radiused and will be thinner at the nut and thicker at the heel... than the previous board.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Ok. So what happened.
First a backstory...let it be known that this was my 3rd build.
I'd like to think I'm a bit less of a greenhorn these days.
ALSO this bass was NOT initially a commissioned bass, nor was it meant to be sold.
I built it for me... as part of my self training.
Someone saw a picture of it... and offered me a ridiculous amount of money to part with it.
It played fantastic then... so I sold it.
View attachment 4183320

Did the neck warp or bow out of whack causing the truss rod issue? No.
In fact... absolutely not.
I got the bass on the jig, tuned to pitch... checked it with a notched straight edge ... and it was damn near perfect. Just a silver of relief ... almost completely flat really...( given that last crank that broke the nut.)
Honestly I think the rod was weak.... but that's more speculation.
Does the action suck now vs 6 years ago?... marginally ... yeah.
WAS THERE...any downward adjustment travel left on the bridge saddles, that could have been used to correct the action once the neck had...
... "settled in"???
.... ahhh... No.
The bridge is bottomed out. (There's yer sign)
This was before I started doing body/neck break angle...and as a "flat" bass... It doesn't have the correct board to bridge elevation. (...my bad)
So...the only recourse left to the new owner to achieve better action... was to try to straighten the neck some more...
It could have been remedied by recessing the bridge about a millimeter... but you know... hindsight.

What's the fix?
The new board will be compound radiused and will be thinner at the nut and thicker at the heel... than the previous board.

Yeah, that's what I suspected. There was a reason why the owner twisted the truss rod to the breaking point. The neck hadn't bowed or developed too much relief; the saddles were bottomed out and the owner was trying to lower the action. Argh. In addition to your post-surgical diagnosis, note that it is a really strong neck. The poor truss rod gave it everything it had, and finally snapped its own neck under the load. May it rest in pieces. It was a good rod, but it faced its mortal limitations.

If you correct the geometry with the new fingerboard, and replace the truss rod with another brave one, all should be well. Hopefully the new truss rod will never be called upon to bend the neck of iron!

 

[charlie monroe]

The loss of the fiber optics has me feeling more than a bit nauseous.

Sorry brother. I know how hard you worked on that.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Personally, I have found that fretboard removal is about like neck carving or fretwork. It was intimidating before I'd done it the very first time, and I was hesitant to even try. It seemed like one of those things only wizards can pull off. But, I got my courage up and had a go, and afterwards, I found myself thinking, "that wasn't so bad after all. In fact it was kind of fun!"

I wouldn't want to try to do it motivated by money (i.e. buying a bass with a broken truss rod, fixing it, and trying to sell at a profit) but don't let it scare you off from a project!

I've replaced a lot of truss rods in basses in my day, and I rarely bother to try to remove the fingerboards by heat any more. Most electric bass fingerboards are thin enough that they are curled and broken by the time you get them off. And there's a risk of splitting or damaging the neck wood in the process. These days, I just pull the frets, set the neck up in my big neck fixture, and rout the fingerboard off. It only takes a few minutes and leaves a flat machined surface on the top of the neck. Rarely is the fingerboard itself worth the trouble of trying to remove it by undoing the glue joint.

 

[RichterScale]

I've replaced a lot of truss rods in basses in my day, and I rarely bother to try to remove the fingerboards by heat any more. Most electric bass fingerboards are thin enough that they are curled and broken by the time you get them off. And there's a risk of splitting or damaging the neck wood in the process. These days, I just pull the frets, set the neck up in my big neck fixture, and rout the fingerboard off. It only takes a few minutes and leaves a flat machined surface on the top of the neck. Rarely is the fingerboard itself worth the trouble of trying to remove it by undoing the glue joint.

Let's say someone doesn't have a jig set up (yet), or a decent router, for that matter, and needs to remove a fingerboard. Is heat and prying the the next best thing? Is damaging the glue joints in a laminated neck a concern? Any other ways in the book of ancient arts that are known besides the router or flat iron?

 

[Five String]

Nothing like watching a brilliant craftsman(person) at work. With other craftspersons chiming in. It's really a guilty pleasure.

 

[Tim Barber]

Let's say someone doesn't have a jig set up (yet), or a decent router, for that matter, and needs to remove a fingerboard. Is heat and prying the the next best thing? Is damaging the glue joints in a laminated neck a concern? Any other ways in the book of ancient arts that are known besides the router or flat iron?

 

[dwizum]

Let's say someone doesn't have a jig set up (yet), or a decent router, for that matter, and needs to remove a fingerboard. Is heat and prying the the next best thing? Is damaging the glue joints in a laminated neck a concern? Any other ways in the book of ancient arts that are known besides the router or flat iron?

I won't pretend to have Bruce's level of experience, but I've done a few each way at this point so I can tell you my thoughts based on that. I used heat and prying on two, specifically because I wanted to save the fretboards. Otherwise I've routed them off as Bruce mentioned. If I were in your shoes, I would just bite the bullet and set up the jigs then route it off. You'll use the jigs so often that the few hours to get them put together will fade into nothingness, and unless you feel a pressing need to save the fretboard, it really is more straightforward to do it that way (IME). Different strokes for different folks though.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Let's say someone doesn't have a jig set up (yet), or a decent router, for that matter, and needs to remove a fingerboard. Is heat and prying the the next best thing? Is damaging the glue joints in a laminated neck a concern? Any other ways in the book of ancient arts that are known besides the router or flat iron?

There are two basic ways to remove a fingerboard:

1.) Machine it off, with a router or a milling machine. A variant of that would be to shave it all the way off with chisels and a hand plane. Obviously, take out the frets and dots first!

2.) Apply heat to soften the glue joint and pry it off. That's what Rockhewer did above. The usual technique is to apply heat to the top of the fingerboard with an electric iron. Then use some kind of a thin knife blade, heated, to slice through the glue joint. A variant is to make up a hot wire rig to slice the glue. I messed with this a few years back, and couldn't get it to work.

Are there any other methods? I can't think of any off hand.

Edit: Another variant on 1.) would be to grab an angle grinder with a 60 grit disk, and grind the whole fingerboard off. Just be really careful as you get down to the neck wood! Clean up the surface with a flat sanding block. Ugly and messy, but it would work.

 

[ctmullins]

Theoretically you could saw most of it off with a handsaw, and plane it down from there. I'd be worried about saw blade deflection cutting into the actual neck wood though. Guide blocks maybe?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I’m newly converted to router planer jigs, thanks to Bruce, and that seems the cleanest and most controllable if you aren’t trying to save the board. I finally built one, and I can shave down to .001”s with it. The trick with neck through would be getting it clamped solid, particularly with any neck angle.

 

[Rôckhewer]

1.) Machine it off, with a router or a milling machine....

I thought about doing it this way...
But in this case, the truss rod is at tension and the nut is broke off.
So once you get down too thin... that stressed out rod is likely to pop through and bite you in the bit.?