Band expenses

[Joe Louvar]

Subbed. I'm not going anywhere until I see a video! Pass the popcorn.

+1.

Yeah OP: at this point (10 page thread), I think we kind of deserve to see a video of her performance.

 

[bassmeknik]

Hi,

If you'd like to invest that kind of money in your son's career, why not put it where it will do him the most good? I would suggest attending Musicians Institute (www.mi.edu). There you will learn your craft, learn the business, network, and you won't be throwing your money away for the benefit of some singer and her "mom-ager". I think Tal Wilkenfeld is a graduate. Look her up.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

This is (IMO) an excellent suggestion. This would be the way I would want to spend that money on my sons musical education. He will benefit from your love in ways you may not have considered. Give him a solid start to the business. Don't teach him how not to do it first... he will likely face many more challenges in his musical career and he would benefit more with a good musical education. He will likely meet and have to deal with many more people like his "momager" and the sooner he figures out how to deal with it/them the better off he will be. I just feel like you are setting your son up to fail by continuing to be involved in this band. By contributing to the project financially you are (indirectly) contributing to his failure. I would want my son to be involved in projects that foster a sense of accomplishment not failure. You don't gamble on sure losers, spend money where you have a better chance of gaining. Just my .02

Good luck to you and your son, I sincerely hope he benefits from the experience in ways worthy of your investment and not just get screwed over. The TB community is here to give advice, and some of the advice may be wrong, but please consider how many have said this was a good idea compared to how many have tried to warn you of the problems with this bands business model. Set your son up to succeed if possible, this arrangement is doomed to failure in my humble opinion.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm amused that in 10 pages of replies about this situation no one has suggested that contract is standard or good, nor have said the situation is normal or good and that hasn't really caused any 'pause' in consideration. And I didn't even see the video.

 

[iriegnome]

The thing I found interesting is that someone actually didn't know how expensive it is just to be in a bar band let alone go any further with video (that we all agree we have not seen) and travel, promotion and everything else. Millions.. Simply put. Without money and major money, not many make it further and a great time and fond memories. It can happen, but the likely hood is pretty low. We have all seen "that band" and probably all been told "you're going to be huge", but I know it cost money to get down the road let alone build a following with merch and so on. Much more expensive than just buying a Beta 58(just one example) and hitting the road

 

[D1on]

#'s are total split by all 4 members. I also realize the singer could get signed on her own and there is no guarantee that they will take the whole band
if it helps the band is located in So. Cal.

You just identified the "managers" goal.

 

[iriegnome]

Yes indeed. I have a friend who manages his sister-in-law. She was 12 when she hit the road. The second Reverb Nation caught on to her and signed her, they fired her band and got to work on finding a band that fit her better. It is called Show Buisness for a reason and a lot of us have really good faces for radio.. The industry does love its pretty people

 

[jive1]

The thing I found interesting is that someone actually didn't know how expensive it is just to be in a bar band let alone go any further with video (that we all agree we have not seen) and travel, promotion and everything else. Millions.. Simply put. Without money and major money, not many make it further and a great time and fond memories. It can happen, but the likely hood is pretty low. We have all seen "that band" and probably all been told "you're going to be huge", but I know it cost money to get down the road let alone build a following with merch and so on. Much more expensive than just buying a Beta 58(just one example) and hitting the road

Great point. Even if the OP's son doesn't get replaced down the road, the OP may have to pay up more or quit. Say the act gets picked up by a label, and they say they want to keep the band. They will go on tour, record, etc. But, there's an contract in place that all proceeds go to the manager, which means the kid will be working long hours for slave wages. Or maybe the label will give them a $10,000 advance to produce a recording which will be repaid by future sales. The future sales don't come in like the label expects, and the band has to repay them according to the contract. The band is still on the hook for expenses, even after spending all the money beforehand on promotion, recordings, etc. Or say, the band wants to get radio play. There's a practice referred to as payola where you pay a broadcaster or promoter to play your song on the radio or cast it in a favorable light. This can be pretty expensive.

Like many business, the further you go up, the more expenses you have. And a successful business will figure out a way to cover these expenses through revenue. This has potential to be a money sink, since it's already established that people will be paying for expenses. So, the question is once the share of $7100 is paid, will there be more expenses to be paid if it's above 'operating expenses'? Many scams and bad investments will have you spending good money trying to reclaim bad money. Like relationships, businesses, basses, etc., it's hard to quit something after you have invested in it. And the more you invest, the harder to quit.

 

[jive1]

There's lots of things I don't like about the situation, but the 2 that really stand out....

The manager is making money, but the musicians aren't. If she doesn't have musicians, she doesn't have a band to manage. Nothing to manage, means no commission. Or she could do what many others do that don't want to pay musicians - use tracks. Without the musicians, she's managing a karaoke act not a band. And even in todays world, a lone vocalist singing to a backup track can't deliver the energy and show that a band can.

The other is that teenagers are being taken advantage of. Would anyone consider doing this to a bunch of 30 year olds? No, because they wouldn't fall for it. You would probably be embarrassed to try this with grown-ups. But because teens are inexperienced, idealistic, hopeful, etc. people take advantage of that. It really bothers me because these kids need direction and protection, not exploitation because people can get away with it. They may look like grown ups, and do grown up things, but they are still kids and need guidance, not people using them because they can.

 

[karl_em_all]

You could take the money and spend it on lessons for your son, jam space rental, equipment, hire a graphic designer for cool band logo which could then go on band merch, ect.. and just let him start his own band with his buddies who could write and own their own songs. To be honest that would be an awesome set up for any band starting out.

 

[marmadaddy]

There's lots of things I don't like about the situation, but the 2 that really stand out....

The manager is making money, but the musicians aren't. If she doesn't have musicians, she doesn't have a band to manage. Nothing to manage, means no commission. Or she could do what many others do that don't want to pay musicians - use tracks. Without the musicians, she's managing a karaoke act not a band. And even in todays world, a lone vocalist singing to a backup track can't deliver the energy and show that a band can.

The other is that teenagers are being taken advantage of. Would anyone consider doing this to a bunch of 30 year olds? No, because they wouldn't fall for it. You would probably be embarrassed to try this with grown-ups. But because teens are inexperienced, idealistic, hopeful, etc. people take advantage of that. It really bothers me because these kids need direction and protection, not exploitation because people can get away with it. They may look like grown ups, and do grown up things, but they are still kids and need guidance, not people using them because they can.

Your second point is what I really find objectionable. A parent knowingly putting their child into an exploitive situation with little to no potential benefit.

Warning: blunt opinion ahead.

Any "networking" that could get done is that he'll get a reputation as a sucker who'll work for nothing. If I'm hiring people to be in my band I doubt I'd hire someone with a reputation for paying for the privilege. I'd think "what's wrong with them that they had to pay someone to be in their band"?

The idea that a 14 or 15 year old kid is pursuing a "career" as a musician in the manner described is ludicrous. He's a sophomore in HS. He should be working on his musicianship, learning how to write and arrange, and studying the business. Want a career in the music industry? Play with as many people as possible. Be nice to all of them. Stay in touch with them. Constantly work on your craft. Start a band. Create opportunities for yourself. Take lots of gigs but don't let people take advantage of you. "Exposure", "networking" and "getting out there" are terrible excuses for taking a gig. Paying for a gig where that's the promised benefit? Mister, I have a bridge to sell you. Tell me, when does the transition from paying to be in someone else's band to being paid happen? What's the plan for that?

Sorry if the above is harsh but if you're still willing to go through with this after 10 pages of people saying it's a bad idea, I seriously wonder whose dream is being pursued here.

 

[BobWestbrook]

Preach.

 

[SteveHeissner]

If you have an iPhone or Android take photos and videos yourself. Then post them on YouTube. Set up a Facebook page for the band - promote it and invite "friends" to the gigs. Incremental cost to you = zero.

 

[jive1]

Your second point is what I really find objectionable. A parent knowingly putting their child into an exploitive situation with little to no potential benefit.

Even if there is benefit....

Can you imagine saying to your daughter, "Here's $1K to buy yourself some new clothes so you can date this guy. From talking to him, he's probably going to use you, abuse you, and then toss you aside. But at least you'll get a couple of nice dinners and maybe a weekend getaway out of it."

 

[Joe Louvar]

Vqlt: Please post a video link to the girl performing/singing so we can see what you’re seeing - thanks

Also, just out of curiosity are you a divorced/single dad - and is the mother/manager attractive (hot)?

 

[Joedog]

I'm moving forward cautiously. The post have been most helpful and opened my eyes.
The band wil be gigging spring and summer to build a following. They are not just a youtube band. Trying to hit up local high schools and play lunchtime gigs for our target audience

Just wow. Paying thousands of dollars to support a band that isn't even yet doing (I assume for free?) HS lunch gigs? I am stunned and speechless. We're still looking for a video! The above reply seems to indicate they are on Youtube? Maybe I missed it, but how are the "band" members investments protected if the singer ends up actually going somewhere (solo)???? Way too much here that just seems wrong. Hope not for your sake.

 

[iriegnome]

Contract Contract Contract... I mean if the OP is really moving ahead with making the kid a pro, CoNtRact's!!!! 1099's for each other member.. LLC is a great idea and K-2 forms for the LLC members at the end of the year for tax purposes and that is just to start... The LLC should protect each person with definitions for everything spelled out in detail. Lawyer fee's could run a good bit as well. It is not like Robert Trillio went into Metallica without a contract or payment. His hiring bonus (according to the documentry I saw) was in the millions range!!

 

[ChrisB2]

[This invalid link has been removed]

 

[sparkyfender2]

[This invalid link has been removed]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread, but that is hilarious.

 

[singlemalt]

I'm still waiting for the video. Running low on popcorn.

How can this act be top secret, if they are seeking stardom?

So, I've been thinking. Can I get in on this deal? I've got few bucks to throw around. Yeah, my underwear modeling days are behind me, but with an edgy haircut (Okay, wig...) and some dark clothing, I could be that chick magnet bassist. The mysterious guy lurking back by the drum riser in the low light. My kid can be the new keyboardist.

We don't even have to plug in right? I mean it's a new day. Who would risk their reputation by actually playing live? The audience just wants to see someone act out their favorite song, so why mess around with all the troublesome aspects of a live performance? Sure, this kind of stuff got a bad name back in the Milli Vanilli day, but now?

I'm going to start a bidding war to be a part of this band. I'll go $10,000 for me and the kid!

Where do I submit my glamour shots?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Even it it did happen, basskidwonder wouldn't stand to make more than a wage at best, or a kick to the kerb more likely.