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Band expenses

I know I'm going off topic, if you are in a band and not the singer how do you make it in this business if the labels only want the singer? My son plays guitar, bass and keys but he will never get the same attention that the singer gets. I have excepted the fact that the singer gets the glory and my son should work on his craft and be the best musician possible.
 
As such, the band are best called what they are going to be treated as - hired guns. But I've never heard of hired guns who essentially have to pay-to-play. You should not be fronting any money; your son should be getting paid a flat fee for each gig and each recording session he is asked to be involved with.

Agree totally.
This is one of the most brilliant (and cold-hearted) scams I've seen in quite a while.
 
I know I'm going off topic, if you are in a band and not the singer how do you make it in this business if the labels only want the singer? My son plays guitar, bass and keys but he will never get the same attention that the singer gets. I have excepted the fact that the singer gets the glory and my son should work on his craft and be the best musician possible.

Labels are always interested in real bands with quality players/material...but not the same ones or the same parts of the labels that are looking for Disneyesque teen girl superstars.

That usually happens by signing to a smaller label, proving success at that level then being brought up to the majors.

The whole thing about them moving from the midwest, bringing the name and girl to find LA success while turning over band (multiple times now) would make me more than grossed out by this deal.
 
I know I'm going off topic, if you are in a band and not the singer how do you make it in this business if the labels only want the singer? My son plays guitar, bass and keys but he will never get the same attention that the singer gets. I have excepted the fact that the singer gets the glory and my son should work on his craft and be the best musician possible.

Not off topic, actually the crux of the issue!

Rhythm section contributes the groove which someone hangs a hook line on to sell a million records. The only way to get a rightful piece of that pie is to have a written agreement that band songwriting royalties be split evenly.
 
I know I'm going off topic, if you are in a band and not the singer how do you make it in this business if the labels only want the singer? My son plays guitar, bass and keys but he will never get the same attention that the singer gets. I have excepted the fact that the singer gets the glory and my son should work on his craft and be the best musician possible.


Join/form a really great metal or indie rock band. :)
 
here is the full language in the agreement for songs written:

Songs Written: Band Member acknowledges that songs written by old members will be credited to the rightful writers. All songs written as a Band Member of ________shall remain the property of _____but shall be appropriately credited based on the Band Member’s participation in the songwriting process (melody, lyrics, music). If a member brings a complete song, the member retains ownership of his/her song.

Credit is not the same as royalties. "Property of" means this is a work for hire agreement.
 
I know I'm going off topic, if you are in a band and not the singer how do you make it in this business if the labels only want the singer? My son plays guitar, bass and keys but he will never get the same attention that the singer gets. I have excepted the fact that the singer gets the glory and my son should work on his craft and be the best musician possible.
Suppose this particular band didn't exist. You could ask the general question of how a young person can prepare for a music career. You could also ask how to get the most bang for the buck in terms of the money that you put into this.

Disclaimer: Personally, I opted out of a music career while I was still a teenager, because I had other passions as well. Today I'm a part time hired gun bassist, and my kids are both heavily into music. So I know a lot of career musicians.

Singer-centric pop music is not the entire music business. It probably takes no more than about 10000 musicians at any given time to crank out all of it. Less and less of it involves analog instruments.

There's an old saying in business: "During a gold rush, sell shovels." There are ways to make a living in the music biz without hitching your wagon to the prospects of any particular singer. One way is to teach. Everybody I know in my locale who is making a reasonable middle class living as a musician teaches music to children, along with performing and other music related activities. Most of them have music degrees. The problem is, either you like kids or you don't.

Religious music could easily be half of the music industry.

My limited involvement as a hired gun (albeit playing mostly jazz, and mostly upright bass these days) is that I've earned my small share of success by having good chops, versatility, fluent sight-reading, and being really easy to deal with. A typical suggestion to young bassists is to cross-train on upright.

Another business model that I've seen work is what I would call the "complete musician" model. My kids attended a string camp last year, and I got to hang out (and jam) with some of those musicians. What I mean by "complete" is that these folks all played one or more instruments at a very high level, were capable of doing hired gun work, sight reading, singing, composing and arranging, teaching, studio work, and so forth. Anything. I was stunned. And they were decent, interesting, supportive people. They seemed to have all hired and worked with one another on gigs, and I suspect they had extensive networks. Each of them was capable of functioning as the leader of a project or band. Leading a band is a way to rise above the grind of constantly hustling for sideman work, and lets you call more of the shots. The same goes for being able to organize complete events.

One of them suggested that if you look at the up-and-coming musicians, a large fraction of them are learning to sing in addition to playing an instrument. So a couple of possibilities for your son might be: Voice lessons, and playing in a band that offers him a chance to sing.
 
Agree totally.
This is one of the most brilliant (and cold-hearted) scams I've seen in quite a while.

The thing is, the Mom-ager probably thinks she's doing things in a legit fashion. Family members with no experience in the music industry often have some very strange ideas about what is considered standard business practice.

I know a young girl who's made a few hundred grand from YouTube alone. In fact she was one of the first people to figure out the whole monetization angle. Of course, that money's all gone, because her dad was her manager. He was using her money to pay the mortgage, invest in bad business deals, etc. She had to sue him to get back control of her YouTube channel and royalty stream, which cost her about a year in momentum. But he really believed that her career was the family business. He still does. He thinks her whole family should each get an equal cut of her earnings, even the members who had zero involvement in her work.
 
mellowinman,
glad to see you were able to view at least one of the videos (unless you are being tongue in cheek) they are pretty good if I say so myself

No, I was being quite serious. The production quality is top-notch, and the concept is decent. The band comes across as personable, and the songs are catchy.

Now, keep in mind, I detest that kind of thing, but I doubt I'm their target audience. Disney pop-girl rockstars annoy me to the point of wanting to stick sharp objects in my ears. I like real rock and roll.

But those are still good videos.
 
Her entry on prsguitars.com is pretty clear that it's her and her backing band, and the fact that they have already ditched 2 members (drums and bass) would seem to support that view...

There's an interview on YouTube too, ironically with the old drummer and bassist, which states the kids were not just friends that came together to form a band.

Not everything you see is as it seems of course, but it does rather look as though you'll be paying for the privilege of being a backing player... Up to you and your boy to decide whether the experience outweighs the expense, I guess.

Good luck - pip
 
Hi,

If you'd like to invest that kind of money in your son's career, why not put it where it will do him the most good? I would suggest attending Musicians Institute (www.mi.edu). There you will learn your craft, learn the business, network, and you won't be throwing your money away for the benefit of some singer and her "mom-ager". I think Tal Wilkenfeld is a graduate. Look her up.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I've followed the thread from the beginning and posted earlier. I truly believe it's a waste of good money that could be better invested in the kid in other ways. I've come to the conclusion that the OP has the money to burn, isn't daunted by $7K out of pocket, and the kid wants to do it. Live and learn. I hope we are all proven wrong and the kid gets a gig on Nickelodeon.
 
My son hopes to attend MI after high school. He is currently a sophomore. I'm fully aware we are helping to fund the singers dream. I will be keeping a close eye on the situation and ready to pull the plug if needed. However my son does gain valuable experience with touring, recording, production, videos, etc. It might be worth the money just for the experience, exposure and possible connections made. Kind of like a pumped up band camp or sending your kid to camp jam but on a bigger level.
p.s. my son has started vocal lessons but he does not have the personality or desire to be the frontman.
just curious, have any members in this forum started off in a similar band arrangement as a teen? How did it work out?