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Band expenses

#162
vqlt said:
My son hopes to attend MI after high school. He is currently a sophomore. I'm fully aware we are helping to fund the singers dream. I will be keeping a close eye on the situation and ready to pull the plug if needed. However my son does gain valuable experience with touring, recording, production, videos, etc. It might be worth the money just for the experience, exposure and possible connections made. Kind of like a pumped up band camp or sending your kid to camp jam but on a bigger level.
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Pulling the plug after your money is spent seems like a moot point. I understand that you want your kid to learn the ropes, but a manager who takes all the money from paid performances is not the norm of an up-and-up band. A band made up of volunteer hired hands that are there soley to support the artist is not the norm for an up-and-up band. Band members paying into a band with no ownership is not the norm for an up-and-up band. Do you really devalue your son's talent and the investment you made into it to invest in a 'learning' experience like this? It's kind of like learning about sex by getting date raped, or how to operate a store by getting held up. Neither are how it's supposed to go, but if your much of your early experiences are like that, you will think that's how everything goes. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. What you are describing is not the norm for an equitable, profitable band.

BassCliff said:
I play in a semi-pro cover band for corporate events, casinos, county fairs, private parties, showcases, etc. We play high-dollar gigs. We had our promo video and pictures done for way less and the band leader paid for it all. That's why the band leader takes a bigger cut of the take, to cover expenses. We do only one promo video a year to keep it fresh. Last year I made over $15,000 playing music part time and all I paid for was gas and some new gear.
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This is how most honest and profitable bands work. This is the opportunity that he should seek. The time and money spent on the one you are describing may take away time and energy towards a more legitimate opportunity.
 
#164
jive1 said:
Pulling the plug after your money is spent seems like a moot point. I understand that you want your kid to learn the ropes, but a manager who takes all the money from paid performances is not the norm of an up-and-up band. A band made up of volunteer hired hands that are there soley to support the artist is not the norm for an up-and-up band. Band members paying into a band with no ownership is not the norm for an up-and-up band. Do you really devalue your son's talent and the investment you made into it to invest in a 'learning' experience like this? It's kind of like learning about sex by getting date raped, or how to operate a store by getting held up. Neither are how it's supposed to go, but if your much of your early experiences are like that, you will think that's how everything goes. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. What you are describing is not the norm for an equitable, profitable band.


This is how most honest and profitable bands work. This is the opportunity that he should seek. The time and money spent on the one you are describing may take away time and energy towards a more legitimate opportunity.
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I'd be encouraging my son by suggesting he find a few other people his age to START a band with...and maybe by providing him the setup to do it. A small/decent PA, a secure place to practice, support and help in doing things from the ground up, from how to book shows and even software and gear to do basic recordings.

My parents hated the music I wanted to play and mostly the people I wanted to play with but provided us with place to spend our afternoons, and enough support for me to have some basic gear...and enthusiasm that we were doing it.
 
#166
for us we generally pay between $30-$60 an hour to record in nice studios. we've done everything from home studio laptop stuff to recording with a semi famous producer. I find, to get a good final product whether you spend $30 an hour or $60 an hour it tends to end up costing pretty close to the same amount in the end because studios that charge more are generally more efficient.

As for video. We do plan to make an actual music video when the album were currently writing is completed. Our plan is to hire some folks to record a multi camera video recording of a live show, one of the venues we play a lot actually offers this service for a fee but they do a pretty nice job, multiple cameras, good quality and everything, then record a bunch of footage on our own and just edit it at home in either pro tools or reaper. remember a true music video uses the audio from the album so you don't have to worry about audio at all in that case. Be creative. for me my favorite videos are fun. Check out Twelve foot ninjas videos on youtube, I love their videos. Lots of comedy, of course they all have some performance footage but each video is kinda of like a mini movie. I personally feel like just shooting the band playing a song in a "cool" location is way overdone and boring these days.

As for taxes it'll turn into an all out war trying to claim everything you should be able to claim. You should be able to claim all traveling expenses, depreciation on gear and so on but its tough to do. So most bands tend only pay taxes where they absolutely have to, for example selling on major sites online.
 
#168
vqlt said:
My son hopes to attend MI after high school. He is currently a sophomore. I'm fully aware we are helping to fund the singers dream. I will be keeping a close eye on the situation and ready to pull the plug if needed. However my son does gain valuable experience with touring, recording, production, videos, etc. It might be worth the money just for the experience, exposure and possible connections made. Kind of like a pumped up band camp or sending your kid to camp jam but on a bigger level.
p.s. my son has started vocal lessons but he does not have the personality or desire to be the frontman.
just curious, have any members in this forum started off in a similar band arrangement as a teen? How did it work out?
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How is your son going to go on tour and stay in high school?
 
#169
If you want to teach him experience: let him join a band of his age and level and let him make the experience himself! Rehearse, write, have fun, have the first gig at a school party or in a bar, spend 200$ in studio for the first selfmade record.
Oh - and suck at your first show!! Big time! Which doesnt matter because everybody had a fabiulous time!!!

I wouldn't want to trade that experiences for all major world tours in the world
 
#170
They would only tour in the summer
This is not his first band. Each one has been a step forward. His first band was at the age of 11 when he met some friends at music camp. Most of the bands did the local fair circuit etc.
With no expectations of going anywhere just did it for fun and experience. Each band lead to a new opportunity. Which has lead him to this current band which may carry him forward till the next project. We try to keep moving forward. Of course the point of my original thread was the cost associated with moving forward. When we did local fairs did not need press kit etc. just needed to ask to perform and have a facebook page. Now there is reverbnation, sonic bids, promo videos, business cards, posters, etc.
 
#171
I guess the first question I would have is why does the band have all of these expenses if they don't have any revenue (which I guess means they don't have any paying gigs). The cold hard truth is that if they want to make it to the next level; they will have to be able to play. Usually it take a number of years to develope the talent necessary to become a professional. While I don't want to be seen as raining on anyone's parade; not too many bands made up 16 year-olds are signed to major labels. Yes, there are 16 year old artists who occasionally hit the big time, but bands are different. I would really be hesitant before I spent any money. If the other band members are also minors, there may be legal issues. If your son is really dead set on joining, maybe you need to talk to the mom/manager and negotiate the conditions. What if he pays all this money, and then the other members decide to fire him? What if they tell him he has to quit school to concentrate on the music?
I read Moses Avalon's books about the music industry, and found them helpful. I would tread cautiously.
 
#172
One thing I have noticed, the local music scene in LA is very competitive. There are dozens of teen bands in this area trying to make a name and get noticed. I think some of these cost are the price of being competitive in this market. This band was fairly successful in a smaller market but fealt the need to move west and try and play in the big leagues. Maybe geography is a big part of the equation
 
#173
I think it is time for a bottom line - we have 9 pages of reactions telling you to do NOT what you intent; in any flavor, direct and indirect, kind and harsh. I might have overread it but I have not seen a single comment telling you that your plans are actually a good idea.
So as I stated earlier, I have a feeling you try to convince yourself that it is OK to be in this situation that you obviously cannot handle/control.
 
#174
vqlt said:
One thing I have noticed, the local music scene in LA is very competitive. There are dozens of teen bands in this area trying to make a name and get noticed. I think some of these cost are the price of being competitive in this market. This band was fairly successful in a smaller market but fealt the need to move west and try and play in the big leagues. Maybe geography is a big part of the equation
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What the band needs more than anything is real-world gigging experience and networking opportunities. Everyone involved needs to remember that all of the other bands trying to make it in LA are doing exactly the same thing - they're recording, putting videos on YouTube, getting photos shoots, building a highly-visible online profile, etc. It's a bit like having all the 'right' extracurricular activities under your belt when applying for college - everybody else has 'ticked the boxes', and what it comes down to is luck and standing out from the rest of overachievers.

It's your money, so you can do what you want in the end. But take this as investment advice: the video is most certainly money down the drain. Instead of putting money into a video, put it into pay-to-play gigs at high-profile venues such as the House Of Blues ($400 a gig), and put some into promotion to get people along to those gigs. Get in touch with smaller radio stations and see if you can get some airtime - e.g. 99.3 KCLA FM have a segment featuring local up and coming bands. Radio guys are often also moonlighting as promoters and managers, and will hook the band up with a gigs. There's heap of smaller venues along the beach (e.g. Hermosa) that you can just call up and they set you up with a gig (often with really short notice, but that's just LA...) There's no pay in it, but there's free food and potential listeners, plus the experience of playing a gig.

However you go about it, the band needs to be gigging and interesting with actual people. That's really, really important. I could sit here and manufacture an entire band on my computer, by myself, with recordings, videos, websites, photos, the works. But it's all pointless window dressing if the band hasn't got a real-world profile.
 
#175
I'm moving forward cautiously. The post have been most helpful and opened my eyes.
The band wil be gigging spring and summer to build a following. They are not just a youtube band. Trying to hit up local high schools and play lunchtime gigs for our target audience
 
#178
vqlt said:
I know I'm going off topic, if you are in a band and not the singer how do you make it in this business if the labels only want the singer? My son plays guitar, bass and keys but he will never get the same attention that the singer gets. I have excepted the fact that the singer gets the glory and my son should work on his craft and be the best musician possible.
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By being an outstanding musician with a reputation for ability and reliability, and having some sound business sense. There are two fundamental roles; in a true band setting, there is a chemistry between the bandmates that gives the group its mojo, and the members recognize that. It may be that all members are contributing to songwriting, or it may just be something about the dynamic. Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend may hire excellent musicians and put on a Who concert, but they will be the first to say it's not the same as when Keith Moon and John Entwhistle were still alive. If your son has joined up with a GROUP that sees him as essential to the group's mojo, his position is secure.

The other role is as an in-demand hired gun. Maybe he's not a member of any particular group; but the producers of pop stars etc. out there get to know that he's a guy you can count on to get the job done with professionalism. There are a lot of bass heroes talked about on these boards that no one outside the musical community has heard of - guys like Pino Palladino and Will Lee. They've had great careers as sidemen, playing on all sorts of hits you don't even know they played on.
 
#179
So besides paying for the singers dream is the band writing all her music too ? Sounds like other then her image and pushy mom she's not bringing anything to the table. After she figures out she cant keep a band together because of her moms actions she gonna end up hating her.
 
#180
The biggest negative I can think of is that this young lady has been pushing the "young teen pop star" genre for a good number of years, and pretty soon, she will be too old to do that.

Sad as it is, that's something to consider, as far as her "making it."
 

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