Band members who drink

[LawrenceKanter]

The singer-guitarist in my punk-indie trio is a pretty heavy drinker, while I’m sober. (We’ve been friends for more than a decade and the two of us used to get wasted quite a bit together back when I was drinking.) He still has four or five beers every time we rehearse, and generally, I'm cool with it. But it can be a problem at gigs. He starts as soon as show up for soundcheck — say, at 6. By the time we go on at 8:30 or 9, he’s had three or four, as well as some shots with his friends, and he’s drunk. I’ve found that his playing and singing really start to suffer after the third drink or so. Alcohol being what it is, he has no awareness of that. In fact, quite the opposite. His hero is Paul Westerberg, circa 1985, and even though he’s old enough to know better (mid-50s), he still buys into the whole sloppy, rock-and-roll-excess myth.

FWIW, audiences seem to respond well enough. But I know that we could be so much tighter and leaner and meaner if he could control his intake. I’ve tried to bring it up, and his response tends to be a sarcastic, “Ok, dad.”

I try hard not to judge other peoples’ choices when it comes to substances. And he so clearly loves to drink when he plays. Plus, this is a hobby-band, not a moneymaking situation, so the stakes are low. So I’ve kind of made peace with the idea that he is who he is, and if I want to keep playing with him – which I do – I gotta accept that. But it's a shame because I know the drinking is holding us back.

Anyway, I’m curious how you-all handle similar issues with players who drink.

 

[Queue]

I used to drink constantly. Been sober since 2003? (so long, I can't remember)

I doubt you'll be able to get him to change until he gets a wake-up call. Hopefully the wake-up call doesn't take him or anyone else out.

 

[Microbass]

Aside from him having a health scare and cutting back or quitting drinking, if having a mature conversation doesn't work... Start recording rehearsals and preferably a gig. Listen back as a band or share via a whatsapp ground. Helps if the drummer is on board and you can both give your feedback of "something doesn't sound right", or, "that bit was a bit sketchy, lets work on it" - hopefully he hears it.

If he doesn't, it is what it is.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Just our situation. We had a guitarist join a former band I was in. Same situation, he was very drunk at about an hour into a 4 hr gig. It was bad and he was offered the ultimatum that either he curtailed it or he would be asked to leave. He left.

Luckily for him he made some choices on his own and got sober.

A few years later he was re-invited back to what was the current lineup in the same band. He and I later formed the band we have now and have been playing together for over 20 years. In our situation it worked well.

Whether you take a hard line is up to you. If you've been friends for that long maybe you could offer some assistance to him on how to clean up his act. Just going from my experience.

 

[Killing Floor]

You could just mention it casually. Not at the gig when he’s drinking. 4-5-6 is closer to addiction than not. Especially as a regular occurrence. But you could say, “hey I think you are a whole lot better without fewer drinks. Can I beg you into trying a single gig straight?” Then record it and make sure he hears it. And/or you could be all syrupy and gushy and appeal to the fact that he’s your friend and you care about his health. I’m going out on a limb here but at 50-ish I’m betting indy punk isn’t his only job. So if he’s blasted each gig and rehearsal it very well may be a problem at the day job. And if he was my friend and I cared I’d let him know.

 

[LawrenceKanter]

I'd call him a fairly high-functioning alcoholic. He'd probably agree with that.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I’ve worked with highly-functioning alcoholics. If they can self-identify their own particular balance / threshold / tipping point, things sometimes work out…but not always.

Riis

 

[MoireBass]

I'd call him a fairly high-functioning alcoholic. He'd probably agree with that.

The thing about high-functioning alcoholics is they always become non-functioning alcoholics eventually.

Sometimes alcohol causes pretty decent guitarists to turn into the world's biggest a-hole too. Such has been my experience.

 

[ThudThudThud]

I love a drink, but when playing in bands I think the most I had while playing was a one beer.
I prefer water, and being completely in the moment when I'm playing, plus I usually have a drive after and I don't drink and drive.
I might have a Scotch or Rye, and a cheese sandwich when I get home.

 

[ChrisB2]

-audiences seem to respond well enough
-he so clearly loves to drink when he plays
-I want to keep playing with him

Based on these points, personally I would leave it alone.

Besides, there really is no way to make someone change. Amy Winehouse - Rehab comes to mind...

 

[Fynn]

You try not to judge? Well, he's your friend, so judge away. Tell him what you think about the drinking. I personally would also be concerned for his health, but if it's mainly the music that's suffering in your opinion, then tell him that.
Be nice, be kind, be a good friend. Make sure it doesn't sound like you're just preaching to him...

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I flat-out refuse to play with people who drink heavily. As a result, I only end up playing with the top players in my area (obviously I don't drink), as well as a bunch of national artists. Point is, people that drink heavily will only bring you down.

 

[Patrice B]

The thing about high-functioning alcoholics is they always become non-functioning alcoholics eventually.

Sometimes alcohol causes pretty decent guitarists to turn into the world's biggest a-hole too. Such has been my experience.

I agree, I’ve hit the non-functioning state and it’s not fun for you and your relatives/friends. It was fun but musically really disjointed… until it wasn’t fun anymore! Now sober since three years and I play with a friend of my dark era and accept that he have a beer or two. The fact that I’m not drinking refrain him to go completely wild!

 

[Discount Bassy]

I have found that I'm at the top of my game when I play sober. I've also found that I can manage my life better when I am sober. Because I am sober and a recovering alcoholic, I am pretty careful about what situations I put myself into. I try to avoid any further "research" on a point that I have proven to myself repeatedly. That being said, I find that when I play with folks who drink excessively (that being to the point that it interferes with the group experience), I become a bit frustrated and aware of how things could be improved. I am a fan of songs being a bit "wide in the turns" when it is a fun exploration, less so when the bus is careening through a cornfield and we are trying to avoid trees and rocks.

I've played with folks who couldn't perform sober and were sure that if they quit it would be the end of them playing. At one point in my life, I felt the same, having relied upon alcohol to quell the anxiety of live performance and human interaction. In the end, after I quit, I found I still had a bit anxiety, but not as much as I'd expected and the butterflies in my stomach turned out to be excitement, not terror. Given my druthers, I choose to play with folks who choose to play sober. I don't care what folks do on their own time, but if the shared time is compromised, I see it as problem and have some decisions to make. There is a theory that "something is better than nothing". Sometimes I choose nothing with the intention of making something new that is different.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

The singer-guitarist in my punk-indie trio is a pretty heavy drinker, while I’m sober. (We’ve been friends for more than a decade and the two of us used to get wasted quite a bit together back when I was drinking.) He still has four or five beers every time we rehearse, and generally, I'm cool with it. But it can be a problem at gigs. He starts as soon as show up for soundcheck — say, at 6. By the time we go on at 8:30 or 9, he’s had three or four, as well as some shots with his friends, and he’s drunk. I’ve found that his playing and singing really start to suffer after the third drink or so. Alcohol being what it is, he has no awareness of that. In fact, quite the opposite. His hero is Paul Westerberg, circa 1985, and even though he’s old enough to know better (mid-50s), he still buys into the whole sloppy, rock-and-roll-excess myth.

FWIW, audiences seem to respond well enough. But I know that we could be so much tighter and leaner and meaner if he could control his intake. I’ve tried to bring it up, and his response tends to be a sarcastic, “Ok, dad.”

I try hard not to judge other peoples’ choices when it comes to substances. And he so clearly loves to drink when he plays. Plus, this is a hobby-band, not a moneymaking situation, so the stakes are low. So I’ve kind of made peace with the idea that he is who he is, and if I want to keep playing with him – which I do – I gotta accept that. But it's a shame because I know the drinking is holding us back.

A will not sit in judgement. All I can say is I tell the difference in my level of play after one drink, and I can assure you it's not for the better. We record everything so there is undeniable proof.

As for your mate, I hope he has some one to drive him home after these binges. And "Dad", don't be afraid to take his keys if he doesn't. Besides that I'd be much more concerned about his health than anything else.

Anyway, I’m curious how you-all handle similar issues with players who drink.

 

[jimmydean]

If you need to drink , do it after the gig . I lost out on a tour of Europe because a couple members of the backup band got drunk before a major concert and the manager of the singer fired everyone after the gig . The drummer and myself didn't drink , but we got the boot too . There is a guy I would love to play with right now , but in spite of his talent , his drinking would be a problem and it's not worth the misery .

 

[buldog5151bass]

I refuse to play with people who play impaired. Simple as that.

 

[TeaTime]

When I started refusing to play with people who drink at gigs (15-ish years ago) I was worried I'd have trouble finding a band. What actually happened is I got connected to better performers, which made me work to perform better, which settled me in at a higher level of gigging

 

[stigbeve]

I have a few beers at practice (I'll time it so I don't have more than 2 per hour) but only 1 at the most before and/or during a gig.

 

[J Wilson]

Objectively, if you study musical history in Jazz, rock, country, etc., there is example after example after example of why drink and drugs are an express elevator to Bad Things.

After twenty plus years on bandstands of every size and station, playing with drunks and drug users (ironically often playing for drunks and drug users) ran me off those bandstands. To do so any longer would have been more than I had.

The music industry has for far too long looked the other way, and ignored, if not often endorsed substance abuse partly because we think it's supposed to be sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and actually because regardless, everybody's got to get paid. This often has led to the business model of propping up people who need a lot of help, loading them up on the bus or private jet, and letting the cash register keep rolling, whether a world tour with 250 on staff and dates for the next two years, or me and Bubba down at the VFW this Friday. We all endorse this, tell lurid stories about it, celebrate the burnouts, the sick, and the dead.

I walked away 10 years ago, as I 'd had waaaaayyyyyy past enough. And I loved playing and music better than anything, but it was all for nothing. This has been going on before I ever started, it's still going on now, and it will go on after I've passed.

A shame, really. We need to do better.