I used to drink but only when I was by myself or with somebody.
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Band members who drink
- Thread starter LawrenceKanter
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"His hero is Paul Westerberg, circa 1985, and even though he’s old enough to know better (mid-50s), he still buys into the whole sloppy, rock-and-roll-excess myth."
One thing to do that stuff when you're in your twenties(I know I did), a whole 'nuther when you're in your fifties. Maybe point him to examples of those folks who used to be like that but who survived to go on to clean up their act later in life, and still be productive and creative (the ones who didn't are usually not still working....)
One thing to do that stuff when you're in your twenties(I know I did), a whole 'nuther when you're in your fifties. Maybe point him to examples of those folks who used to be like that but who survived to go on to clean up their act later in life, and still be productive and creative (the ones who didn't are usually not still working....)
This is a tough one as the person with the issue will likely not fully comprehend it without a wake up call as others have suggested. I still drink, but I avoid it if I am performing (either singing, playing, or emceeing / hosting). I learned my lesson in about 2010; I was playing bass and singing in a trio. I was nervous - it was a birthday party for a local actor and he had tons of friends and many of them were in entertainment (and I am a pro voice over artist on the side so my VO colleagues were there along with recognizable actors from TV shows, etc.). Anyway, how better to loosen up than having a couple of drinks...right? Nerves plus alcohol = lost control of my hands. It was a brutal set and I wished I had waited to drink until after we played. Never again.
This is a constant on most gigs I've worked.
It's a poopy business.
It's a poopy business.
The lead guitarist in one of my current projects had a tendency to drink at rehearsals and even a little heavier at gigs. He handled it well, but right around gig #5 it began to affect his playing. We talked about it and come to find out he was dealing with a touch of stage fright and was also really nervous about being the youngest and most inexperienced in a group of guys that'd been doing it for a long time, toured, recorded, etc. We asked him if he would cut back at rehearsals and abstain during gigs and he was ok with it on the condition that we put in extra work at rehearsals and really tighten everything up. Once he found that he could trust the band to hold it all together for his awesome solos, he was able to relax and play sober.
On the other hand, I've been in groups with folks who thought getting absolutely plastered was part of the lifestyle. Their playing was always sloppy and on more than one occasion, I ended up getting dragged into some drama and/or physical altercations brought on by alcohol and sheer stupidity. Not what I signed up for, so I was happy to bail. Sometimes it's just not worth it.
On the other hand, I've been in groups with folks who thought getting absolutely plastered was part of the lifestyle. Their playing was always sloppy and on more than one occasion, I ended up getting dragged into some drama and/or physical altercations brought on by alcohol and sheer stupidity. Not what I signed up for, so I was happy to bail. Sometimes it's just not worth it.
i recently left a band (pained me to do so) that was a well-regarded regional NewGrass band because 3 of the 5 guys in the band were heavy drinkers and tokers. We usually pulled off a great show, but practice was the same as gigs and I got tired of it. I'm in a band now of guys my age who are way more focused and its a much better experience. We usually practice in the mornings (8:30 am - 10:30 am) so no drinking, occasionally an evening practice where we work and then drink our bandleaders good bourbon. Gigs usually +2 beers over the course of 3 hrs. The music is much better and I feel like we are growing as a band. Hard to do when every show is 3/5 of the band pretty zonked, but still playing well.
The mandolin player was a high-level ski jumper when he was younger and that was still the way he approached every solo. Worked 99% of the time. Wonder how he will do when he's 40.
The mandolin player was a high-level ski jumper when he was younger and that was still the way he approached every solo. Worked 99% of the time. Wonder how he will do when he's 40.
The accepted rule of thumb back when I was gigging (and I was NOT sober back then) was that you did the whole first set stone cold and, if everything was going well, you could have a drink (or equivalent) on each of your breaks between sets. Did the rule ever get stretched? Sure ... but it's a solid rule.
3 or 4 beers and some # of shots in 2-3 hours and I wouldn't be able to play a chromatic F scale on the E string, never mind a song...we had a drummer like that, good thing he quit
I'd walk away from that nightmare
I'd walk away from that nightmare
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It broke up my 80s/90s originals band.
I've learned my lesson and generally avoid drug dependent people in all aspects of my life whenever possible.
I'm not sober, and definitely not a prude. But drunks tend to be inconsistent, unpredictable, inconsiderate and sometimes belligerent. Somebody drinking that much on the job is not somebody I want on my team.
I've learned my lesson and generally avoid drug dependent people in all aspects of my life whenever possible.
I'm not sober, and definitely not a prude. But drunks tend to be inconsistent, unpredictable, inconsiderate and sometimes belligerent. Somebody drinking that much on the job is not somebody I want on my team.
I like two or three drinks, but I never drink when I play (work), I just can't maintain my best technique if I drink. Sounds like your friend. I think if it's a band for fun - not professional - you should judge their technical standard, regardless of whether they drink. If it's enough for you, let it go and forget it.
My experience was similar - if you're doing a gig in a bar, having a drink is, to some extent, encouraging the business you're working for. We'd do one beer per set (a beer was 8 ounces in most bars) - back then, it was still legal to smoke indoors, and you needed something to wash the cigarette smoke down your throat every few songs. If you've never played in a smoky bar, yes, that is every bit as gross as it sounds.
Nowadays I do church gigs. Quarter shots of cranberry juice is what we drink on the gig. One per set.
Had a front man about 13 years ago who would get hammered before during and after gigs. One night he started verbally abusing the audience. We pulled a "rock n roll intervention" on him. He was no longer allowed to start drinking before the third set.
This is a business for me. Yes I love to play. Yes I'm good at it...but professionals drink and drug on their own time.
This is a business for me. Yes I love to play. Yes I'm good at it...but professionals drink and drug on their own time.
I draw the line after they fall off the stage three times.
Seriously though, I haven't had to put up with that for years to where it impacts a person's performance more than once or twice, if it started driving me nuts, I'd probably quit or fire the guy. I have a high tolerance for drunken behavior though being sober myself.
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Record some rehearsals and record some shows. They don’t have to be amazing quality, but good enough so that you can hear everything clearly.
Then he should be able to hear how much sloppier the playing is the more intoxicated he gets.
If he can’t hear the difference, there’s a problem. If he can hear the difference but thinks it’s not a problem, it’s a problem. If he can hear the difference, acknowledges it’s a problem, and still can’t stop, it’s a bigger problem than the context of your band.
I think if you come at it criticizing the drinking you’ll get pushback. If you approach it with demonstrable evidence that the music is suffering you probably have a better chance of him choosing to change his behavior.
But it sounds like being in a band and playing music is a fun vehicle for him to party, and the end goal is the party, not making music. And in theory, that’s fine (putting aside for the moment if the partying is a fun social partying or an unhealthy/dangerous/addiction-driven partying.) But if his main goal for the music is to party and your main goal is to make great music, you might not be compatible in the same band. If he has to party less to make music better in ways he doesn’t care about, he’ll start resenting you for killing his party. And if you have to continually suffer through sub-standard performances so he can party, you’re gonna start resenting him (which it sounds like you might already be feeling, with respect to the band.) Might be time to think about a lineup change or new project.
If the issue really is alcoholism, and not just overindulgence when the band is relying on him to play, that goes way beyond getting him to sober up for shows.
I’ve always been of the mindset that I don’t care what my band mates do before the set so long as they can play well. That said, it’s extremely rare that I meet someone who can play as good as they think they can when they’re drunk or high-az-f. Anything more than a “respectable amount” of anything and there’s noticeable drop off in performance.
Then he should be able to hear how much sloppier the playing is the more intoxicated he gets.
If he can’t hear the difference, there’s a problem. If he can hear the difference but thinks it’s not a problem, it’s a problem. If he can hear the difference, acknowledges it’s a problem, and still can’t stop, it’s a bigger problem than the context of your band.
I think if you come at it criticizing the drinking you’ll get pushback. If you approach it with demonstrable evidence that the music is suffering you probably have a better chance of him choosing to change his behavior.
But it sounds like being in a band and playing music is a fun vehicle for him to party, and the end goal is the party, not making music. And in theory, that’s fine (putting aside for the moment if the partying is a fun social partying or an unhealthy/dangerous/addiction-driven partying.) But if his main goal for the music is to party and your main goal is to make great music, you might not be compatible in the same band. If he has to party less to make music better in ways he doesn’t care about, he’ll start resenting you for killing his party. And if you have to continually suffer through sub-standard performances so he can party, you’re gonna start resenting him (which it sounds like you might already be feeling, with respect to the band.) Might be time to think about a lineup change or new project.
If the issue really is alcoholism, and not just overindulgence when the band is relying on him to play, that goes way beyond getting him to sober up for shows.
I’ve always been of the mindset that I don’t care what my band mates do before the set so long as they can play well. That said, it’s extremely rare that I meet someone who can play as good as they think they can when they’re drunk or high-az-f. Anything more than a “respectable amount” of anything and there’s noticeable drop off in performance.
No s*^t. I'm a beer lover, strong, hoppy IPAs a favorite, but man, 3 of those and I'm asleep in front of the TV.
When you as a player find Yourself in a situation where you're playing with another band member who has a drinking problem, a drug problem, or any other kind of a problem that you feel is getting in the way of making the group better. Your choices are very limited.
No person can quit or control their vices, demons, or whatever else they are dealing with unless they want to. Period mic drop! No amount of talking to them will help. Most, if not all will have to hit rock bottom first. By that I mean "THEIR PERSONAL" rock bottom. Not what others think it is. Some do, and get cleaned up and some don't and get worse or dead.
However, you as a person and a player do have a choice. Accept the person as they are and be content to watch them throw their life and their musical talent away. While you grow stale, bored musically, and watch the greener grass on the other side of the musical fence. Or you can move beyond them to go to a better place where you will be happier. Both personally and musically.
I once had to do just that and it was one of the hardest things to do. I genuinely liked the friend when he was lucid and sober but he changed when he was drinking. He never resorted to physical violence, but rather he got very belligerent verbally. Which was always a concern that he might really get violent. His guitar playing suffered badly but naturally he thought he was great. He could not be talked to about it at all. There were a couple of clubs we played at where he got drunk and basically made an ass of himself and IMO our band as well. I know for a fact that it kept us from getting return gigs at one of those venues.
The owner of one venue where I'd played before in a different band, put it bluntly to me. He said "I hire bands to make people buy drinks, dance, and have fun and I expect the band to help them do that throughout the night. Yes people do get drunk and that's why I have bouncers who escort then out and if needed call cabs for them when that happens.
But I can't do that if it's the band that's having a problem with some member that's drinking too much. I can't have the bouncers toss the person or I lose my entertainment for the night. However, I *CAN* decide to not hire that band again". I got the message, relayed it to the rest of the band.
We held a band meeting to talk to the guitarist about it and it went badly. He'd been drinking before the meeting and was already in a mood. He ignored what was said, blamed everything and everyone else, then stormed out leaving the rest of us sitting there. Then I said enough is enough. I won't play in a band that a club owner refuses to book again due to a member who drinks too much. I'm a better player than that and We are a better band than that. I vote here and now to fire him. Only one other member felt as I did so we didn't have the votes to fire the guitar player who drank too much. I finished out the two remaining gigs we had and left the band. Sucked because I liked everybody but if they couldn't come together for the good of the band then I was outta there. Sometimes we all need to do what's best for us. Life's too short for BS.
No person can quit or control their vices, demons, or whatever else they are dealing with unless they want to. Period mic drop! No amount of talking to them will help. Most, if not all will have to hit rock bottom first. By that I mean "THEIR PERSONAL" rock bottom. Not what others think it is. Some do, and get cleaned up and some don't and get worse or dead.
However, you as a person and a player do have a choice. Accept the person as they are and be content to watch them throw their life and their musical talent away. While you grow stale, bored musically, and watch the greener grass on the other side of the musical fence. Or you can move beyond them to go to a better place where you will be happier. Both personally and musically.
I once had to do just that and it was one of the hardest things to do. I genuinely liked the friend when he was lucid and sober but he changed when he was drinking. He never resorted to physical violence, but rather he got very belligerent verbally. Which was always a concern that he might really get violent. His guitar playing suffered badly but naturally he thought he was great. He could not be talked to about it at all. There were a couple of clubs we played at where he got drunk and basically made an ass of himself and IMO our band as well. I know for a fact that it kept us from getting return gigs at one of those venues.
The owner of one venue where I'd played before in a different band, put it bluntly to me. He said "I hire bands to make people buy drinks, dance, and have fun and I expect the band to help them do that throughout the night. Yes people do get drunk and that's why I have bouncers who escort then out and if needed call cabs for them when that happens.
But I can't do that if it's the band that's having a problem with some member that's drinking too much. I can't have the bouncers toss the person or I lose my entertainment for the night. However, I *CAN* decide to not hire that band again". I got the message, relayed it to the rest of the band.
We held a band meeting to talk to the guitarist about it and it went badly. He'd been drinking before the meeting and was already in a mood. He ignored what was said, blamed everything and everyone else, then stormed out leaving the rest of us sitting there. Then I said enough is enough. I won't play in a band that a club owner refuses to book again due to a member who drinks too much. I'm a better player than that and We are a better band than that. I vote here and now to fire him. Only one other member felt as I did so we didn't have the votes to fire the guitar player who drank too much. I finished out the two remaining gigs we had and left the band. Sucked because I liked everybody but if they couldn't come together for the good of the band then I was outta there. Sometimes we all need to do what's best for us. Life's too short for BS.
I think the bits of advice above to record shows and rehearsals and play them to him are solid.
Then again, that's work for you.
I'd tell him straight up he's way better soberesque than drunk and see what he says.
Then again, that's work for you.
I'd tell him straight up he's way better soberesque than drunk and see what he says.
In my experience, donuts are the danger substance at church gigs!
I've been in the same band with the same guys since we were teens. We're in our 50s now. Learned a lot over the decades, including not to drink too much. I'd show the guy a video of himself slopy drunk, if he's embarrassed he may think about his choices a little more.
