some of the studios here aren't that big, so to isolate each person (or just their amp) in a separate booth can become a problem...
of course big studios can do this quite easily, but that usually comes at a price too...
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Band Recording: In what order???
- Thread starter fullrangebass
- Start date
some of the studios here aren't that big, so to isolate each person (or just their amp) in a separate booth can become a problem...
of course big studios can do this quite easily, but that usually comes at a price too...
You don't need booths for everything - use hallways, bathrooms, or any place where the amp can even be halfway isolated - years ago, I even used a couple of the musician's cars - the amps were with the guitarists and the cabinets (on long cables) were stuck in the back seats of, I believe, a Ford Taurus and a Toyota. (Ideally, you're not parked in a quiet residential area, o course...) But for most guys, once they figure out that they can get a great sound from an amp like a Fender Princeton (at low volume), gobos work just fine. They don't offer complete isolation when in the room with a drummer, but if the drummer and the guitar player can play their parts without mistakes, it doesn't Really matter. Complete and total isolation for each track isn't necessary to make a great record.
I may get some flack from this but I have to say it anyway...IF it is at all possible, play as a band...if the engineer doesn't want to do that ask why???? In ancient times (Before Pro Tools and the title of "Producer") there was this thing called MONO which means 1 TRACK to get everything on....THAT means 1 Microphone in a room with all the musicians and a REAL engineer moving the mic around or the players around to find the "sweet spot" where everything was more or less blended together. Tom Dowd told me stories of James Brown bringing in 20 or 30 people and having them IN the studio WHILE the recording was going sitting on couches and whatnot. They just knew to be quiet when the red light came on...
Tom was lucky enough to use one of the first 8 track machines YEARS before other people were using them and was making Stereo records before there was even a name for it....There is a scene in the movie "Ray" that shows the use of the 8 track where Ray Charles sings all the back ups with himself...a technique pioneered by Les Paul and (arguably) perfected by Tom Dowd and Ray among others.
Tom taught me that there is a "sound" that you get by having everything recorded together that you just can't get by recording everything separately. Not to mention the fact that you will pay a LOT more for the studio time in the process! In my opinion, this "practice" of overdubbing everything is just a way to "cheat" good musicians out of some extra money...isolation?? ANY decent engineer can use mic selection, placement, and proper technique to minimize bleed IF that is what they want to do. Even AFTER he started working with 24 tracks or more he ALWAYS recorded the same way he always had...He always said that more tracks just gave him more flavors of good and more options as he went along.
His work speaks for itself! Unless there is a very good reason NOT to record together, try it on AT LEAST 1 song...Intonation?? SETUP THE GUITAR!!! Schmuck......Just my opinion...
(by the way Google Tom Dowd and you will find this in wiki...
Tom Dowd (October 20, 1925 - October 27, 2002) was an American recording engineer and producer for Atlantic Records. He was credited with innovating the multi-track recording method.
Contents
[hide]
[edit] Career
[edit] Early years
Born in Manhattan, Dowd grew up playing piano, violin, tuba, and string bass. His mother was an opera singer and his father was a concertmaster.
Dowd graduated from Stuyvesant High School in June, 1942 at the age of 16. He continued his musical education at City College of New York. Dowd also played in a band at New York's Columbia University, where he became a conductor. He was also employed at the physics laboratory of Columbia University.
[edit] Military work
At age 18, Dowd was drafted into the military with the rank of sergeant. He continued his work in Physics at Columbia University. He worked on the Manhattan Project contributing to the atomic bomb. The purpose of the work was unclear until 1945.[1] Dowd planned to obtain a degree in nuclear physics when he completed his work on the Manhattan Project. Dowd decided not continue, however, since the university would be unable to credit him for his four years of highly classified work as a physicist.[1]
[edit] Music
This article or section needs copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone and/or spelling.
You can assist by editing it now. A how-to guide is available, as is general documentation.
This article has been tagged since July 2007.
Dowd took a job at a classical music recording studio until he obtained employment at Atlantic Records. He soon became a top recording engineer at Atlantic Records and recorded popular artists such as Ray Charles, The Drifters, The Coasters, Ruth Brown, and Bobby Darin (Dowd recorded the legendary "Mack the Knife") and capturing jazz masterpieces by John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Thelonius Monk, and Charlie Parker by night. His first hit was Eileen Barton's "If I Knew You Were Comin' I'd a Baked A Cake". It was Dowd's idea to cut Ray Charles' recording of "What I'd Say" into two parts and release them as the "A" and "B" sides of one 45 rpm single record.
Dowd worked as an engineer and producer from the 1940s until the beginning of the 21st century. He recorded albums by many artists including: Eric Clapton, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rod Stewart, Wishbone Ash, Cream, Chicago, The Allman Brothers Band, The J. Geils Band, Meat Loaf, Sonny & Cher, The Rascals, Willie Nelson, Diana Ross, Kenny Loggins, James Gang, Dusty Springfield, Eddie Harris, Booker T. and the MGs, The Drifters, Otis Redding, The Coasters, Bobby Darin, Aretha Franklin and Ruth Brown. [2] Dowd received a Grammy Trustees Award for his lifetime achievements in February Invalid Link Removed.
He died of emphysema on October 27, 2002 in Florida, where he had been living and working at Criteria Studios recording studio for many years.
[edit] Legacy
Tom Dowd helped to shape the artists that he worked with, and because he worked with an array of great artists on some of the world's greatest recordings, Dowd was highly influential in creating the sound of the second half of the 20th Century. It was he who encouraged Jerry Wexler of Atlantic Records to install an Ampex eight-track recorder, enabling Atlantic to be the first recording company to record using multiple tracks.[3]
Dowd is credited as the engineer who popularized the eight-track recording system for commercial music and popularized the use of stereo sound. Although stereo was invented in the 1800s, Dowd was the first to use it on a record. He also invented the use of linear channel faders as opposed to rotary controls on audio mixers. He devised various methods for altering sound after the initial recording. [4]
In 2003 director Mark Moormann premiered an award-winning documentary about his life entitled Tom Dowd and the Language of Music. In the 2004 biopic Ray, Tom Dowd was portrayed by Rick Gomez.
[edit]
Tom was lucky enough to use one of the first 8 track machines YEARS before other people were using them and was making Stereo records before there was even a name for it....There is a scene in the movie "Ray" that shows the use of the 8 track where Ray Charles sings all the back ups with himself...a technique pioneered by Les Paul and (arguably) perfected by Tom Dowd and Ray among others.
Tom taught me that there is a "sound" that you get by having everything recorded together that you just can't get by recording everything separately. Not to mention the fact that you will pay a LOT more for the studio time in the process! In my opinion, this "practice" of overdubbing everything is just a way to "cheat" good musicians out of some extra money...isolation?? ANY decent engineer can use mic selection, placement, and proper technique to minimize bleed IF that is what they want to do. Even AFTER he started working with 24 tracks or more he ALWAYS recorded the same way he always had...He always said that more tracks just gave him more flavors of good and more options as he went along.
His work speaks for itself! Unless there is a very good reason NOT to record together, try it on AT LEAST 1 song...Intonation?? SETUP THE GUITAR!!! Schmuck......Just my opinion...
(by the way Google Tom Dowd and you will find this in wiki...
Tom Dowd (October 20, 1925 - October 27, 2002) was an American recording engineer and producer for Atlantic Records. He was credited with innovating the multi-track recording method.
Contents
[hide]
- <LI class=toclevel-1>1 Career
- <LI class=toclevel-2>1.1 Early years <LI class=toclevel-2>1.2 Military work
- 1.3 Music
- 4 External links
[edit] Career
[edit] Early years
Born in Manhattan, Dowd grew up playing piano, violin, tuba, and string bass. His mother was an opera singer and his father was a concertmaster.
Dowd graduated from Stuyvesant High School in June, 1942 at the age of 16. He continued his musical education at City College of New York. Dowd also played in a band at New York's Columbia University, where he became a conductor. He was also employed at the physics laboratory of Columbia University.
[edit] Military work
At age 18, Dowd was drafted into the military with the rank of sergeant. He continued his work in Physics at Columbia University. He worked on the Manhattan Project contributing to the atomic bomb. The purpose of the work was unclear until 1945.[1] Dowd planned to obtain a degree in nuclear physics when he completed his work on the Manhattan Project. Dowd decided not continue, however, since the university would be unable to credit him for his four years of highly classified work as a physicist.[1]
[edit] Music
This article or section needs copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone and/or spelling.
You can assist by editing it now. A how-to guide is available, as is general documentation.
This article has been tagged since July 2007.
Dowd took a job at a classical music recording studio until he obtained employment at Atlantic Records. He soon became a top recording engineer at Atlantic Records and recorded popular artists such as Ray Charles, The Drifters, The Coasters, Ruth Brown, and Bobby Darin (Dowd recorded the legendary "Mack the Knife") and capturing jazz masterpieces by John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Thelonius Monk, and Charlie Parker by night. His first hit was Eileen Barton's "If I Knew You Were Comin' I'd a Baked A Cake". It was Dowd's idea to cut Ray Charles' recording of "What I'd Say" into two parts and release them as the "A" and "B" sides of one 45 rpm single record.
Dowd worked as an engineer and producer from the 1940s until the beginning of the 21st century. He recorded albums by many artists including: Eric Clapton, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rod Stewart, Wishbone Ash, Cream, Chicago, The Allman Brothers Band, The J. Geils Band, Meat Loaf, Sonny & Cher, The Rascals, Willie Nelson, Diana Ross, Kenny Loggins, James Gang, Dusty Springfield, Eddie Harris, Booker T. and the MGs, The Drifters, Otis Redding, The Coasters, Bobby Darin, Aretha Franklin and Ruth Brown. [2] Dowd received a Grammy Trustees Award for his lifetime achievements in February Invalid Link Removed.
He died of emphysema on October 27, 2002 in Florida, where he had been living and working at Criteria Studios recording studio for many years.
[edit] Legacy
Tom Dowd helped to shape the artists that he worked with, and because he worked with an array of great artists on some of the world's greatest recordings, Dowd was highly influential in creating the sound of the second half of the 20th Century. It was he who encouraged Jerry Wexler of Atlantic Records to install an Ampex eight-track recorder, enabling Atlantic to be the first recording company to record using multiple tracks.[3]
Dowd is credited as the engineer who popularized the eight-track recording system for commercial music and popularized the use of stereo sound. Although stereo was invented in the 1800s, Dowd was the first to use it on a record. He also invented the use of linear channel faders as opposed to rotary controls on audio mixers. He devised various methods for altering sound after the initial recording. [4]
In 2003 director Mark Moormann premiered an award-winning documentary about his life entitled Tom Dowd and the Language of Music. In the 2004 biopic Ray, Tom Dowd was portrayed by Rick Gomez.
[edit]
I don't think it really matters, but logically going from the ground up makes sense. Some people like to record live because you can play off of eachother, but some producers don't like the bleed you get in that situation.
IME, it's pretty rare to run across a producer who wants full isolation when recording a rehearsed group, has something creative and specific in mind that full iso will enable, and yet is working in a studio that makes it hard to get iso while recording basic rhythm tracks.
OTOH, I've seen a fair number of project-studio "producers" who want to build cuts an instrument at a time because the iso covers their own lack of chops. I'm not saying the desire for full iso is the sign of a hack; but when recording bands, most talented producers want to foster the groove -- valuing feel over fully antiseptic tracks.
The great miracle of the post-ADAT age is that now anyone can record; of course, that's also the great curse.
Actually it doesn't - music isn't logical, and it seldom makes much sense. I've said this before (though probably not on this forum); at its best, music is a conversation between the musicians and the audience (another reason that I believe that music is performed live and in front of other people). A recording is a poor substitute for a live performance, but even then, the recording should capture the conversation between the musicians; if each of the musician plays his parts alone, no conversation takes place - instead, it's some guys all talking . Umm... if that seems a little weird to y'all, replace 'conversation' with 'communication'.
I agree. I am in the process of acquiring gear that will make this more possible, and I have recorded a band (using someone elses mixer) before having them all together then just overdubbing the vocals and it turned out great.
So yeah, if you're going into a studio, playing "live" is the best bet.
So yeah, if you're going into a studio, playing "live" is the best bet.
Last time I was in the studio there were guitar and vocal scratch tracks and the drum track. I laid down the bass, then the others did their final takes. That worked pretty good for me, and I think I would prefer to do it that way in the future.
Using proper mic'ing techniques you can avoid lots of bleed, also. If you're all recording in the same room, set up in a circle, that'll help things, so the mics are all facing outward, essentially.
There are other tricks--reamping a DI guitar, putting the amps in isolated boxes...
But even most smaller studios have at least one or two booths.
There are other tricks--reamping a DI guitar, putting the amps in isolated boxes...
But even most smaller studios have at least one or two booths.
I've got a funny feeling that your guitarist is misusing the words intonate and doesn't actually mean intonate at all. Most likely something else. Maybe you should get him to define intonate for you.....and us because Im curious as to what he means.
For me its always been drums on up to vocal in the usual order. If everyone's practised and have a good sense of rhythm it shouldn't matter which order. But since the drummer (should) have the strongest sense of time then he would naturally go first. Then bass leaving a solid foundation for the rest of the twiddly fiddly stuff.
For me its always been drums on up to vocal in the usual order. If everyone's practised and have a good sense of rhythm it shouldn't matter which order. But since the drummer (should) have the strongest sense of time then he would naturally go first. Then bass leaving a solid foundation for the rest of the twiddly fiddly stuff.
classic as mentioned a billion times before is drums bass guitar vocals
sounds like the guitarist has cold feet of sorts and wants to go first because hes afraid that he won't be able to play while listening to your bass?
id say it doesn't matter which one of you record first if its a studio, or anything near a studio they can simply mute one part or the other so either of you can focus only on the drums. best of both worlds in that case.
sounds like the guitarist has cold feet of sorts and wants to go first because hes afraid that he won't be able to play while listening to your bass?
id say it doesn't matter which one of you record first if its a studio, or anything near a studio they can simply mute one part or the other so either of you can focus only on the drums. best of both worlds in that case.
...of the worst of all worlds. Sorry - I can't see how not being able to hear a guitar part will allow your bass track be better... set the band up and let 'em play.
I play in a metal band so when we record it usually goes drums, lead guitar, bass, rhythm guitar. Weird way we do it but it usually works. 
I've just ordered a Presonus Firepod recording interface for my computer to record our band's songs and practices and my own originals so I don't keep forgetting them. Your technique of the band setting up in a circle,and have the mike/s in the middle facing outward... sounds like an interesting and simple way to do this with the smallest number of microphones. I'd also really prefer doing everything live as much as possible. I don't mean to derail this thread,but do you have any other suggestions for these types of recording issues? Peace...DAcat
We just got back from recording.
Drums
Rhythm Guitars - all parts
Lead Vox
Lead Guitars
Bass Guitars
Backing Vox
Drums
Rhythm Guitars - all parts
Lead Vox
Lead Guitars
Bass Guitars
Backing Vox
that is so funny...
i just saw the sig.. What Would Zappa Do?...
i'm really trying VERY hard to imagine Zappa playing BEFORE the drums/bass...
i guess there's no law..
but drums and bass are the foundations of the music..
sorta like painting the house before the roof is on?..
i just saw the sig.. What Would Zappa Do?...
i'm really trying VERY hard to imagine Zappa playing BEFORE the drums/bass...
i guess there's no law..
but drums and bass are the foundations of the music..
sorta like painting the house before the roof is on?..
I will record my 4th album on sept. 2nd, in fascination street studio (amon amarth and other cool bands recorded there!!), örebrö, in sweden, after drums, guitars, and leadvocals are allready recorded.
first off, I cant go earlier to sweden, because I have some other gigs with my second band, and second....man, I'm happy that way, I always did it that way.
If you know your basslines, it doesn't matter, when you're playing the stuff! if you want to hear just the drums, mute the guitars, hahaha! no, keep em in, haha!
my .02€
first off, I cant go earlier to sweden, because I have some other gigs with my second band, and second....man, I'm happy that way, I always did it that way.
If you know your basslines, it doesn't matter, when you're playing the stuff! if you want to hear just the drums, mute the guitars, hahaha! no, keep em in, haha!
my .02€
