Band volume rant. We are our own worst enemy.

[bumperbass]

So, here I sit, looking for a decent band. I don't really care at this point about the genre (rock, blues, modern country, 90's country, etc.). I only care about the quality of the players. If the music's right on, I'm happy enough. I just don't want to do an acoustic duo/trio.

So if I join a band, where are we going to play? Why the lack of places to play?
There have been many threads discussing the decling band scene, but something that I think has contributed a great deal to the demise of the club scene is:

VOLUME.

The last five bands I've played with were always way too loud. All bands had decent PA support, including subs. The same thing happens all the time....the stage volume is excrutiating, so nobody can hear the vocal monitors, and yet everybody is in the main PA cranked up.
All the bands I've heard around here at the few venues that still have R&R/Country/Metal bands have all been simply too loud, to the point where you can't hear anything except a wall of noise.
Even the worship bands I've heard are all too loud. I hear complaints from all the people running sound in churches, and I hear the same complaint over and over; the stage volume is too loud.
I talked to a club owner a few weeks ago who was having problems with acoustic acts bveing too loud.
He actually told me some acts bring a PA that's too big. He can't be at every show. The people that work for him are telling him they aren't having success in getting the people to turn down.

From the mid 60's to the mid 70's, we used a decent vocal-only PA. Stage volume sometimes got out of hand (OK, most of the time), but since there wasn't the kind of PA support most bands have these days,
it just wasn't as bad. If you could hear the vocals, we figured we were doing something right.

It's getting to the point where most places are too small to run everything through FOH, but bands still do.
It simply sounds like crap.

VOLUME. I realize it's not the only reason the scene is shrinking, but people do not want to have their hair and scarf being blown backwards like the old Memorex commercial, if you're old enough to remember that. Good visual.

Now I need to find a band with decent players who don't play too loud.
It ain't happening, I'm afraid. That's the frustrating part. I'm starting to tell myself it isn't worth it for many reasons:
1. Talent pool is thin
2. No places to play
3. Idiosyncracies of band members
4. Lousy communication
5. Members' failure to learn material
6. etc. x 20

Rant over. Thanks.

 

[DWBass]

100% Agreed! I had to keep telling my drummer to stop hitting so hard last gig. I hate going to see a band and it's nothing but a wall of noise. Can't stand the DJ's either. Not understanding why they have to have the volume up so high that folks have to scream at each other to have a conversation! No lack of music in my area but I see many of the spots are cracking down on the volume.

 

[sm49341]

Any drummer playing acoustic drums on a local scene ought to use brushes( whatever they’re called) otherwise it’s a volume war. I think i just invented a phrase there- Volume Whore.

 

[biguglyman]

 

[5StringBlues]

I tell the guys in my band all the time- make them tell us to turn up, not the other way around.


I've never lost a gig for playing too quietly.

 

[Chango Malo]

volume covers a multitude of sins. Play quieter and you'll hear so much more. Many musicians don't like it when they can hear how sloppy they really are. It's kinda the same deal with IEM's. You can't hide anything.
Don't like a low stage volume? go practice.

 

[craigie]

The last two guys I played with had the stage volume so loud it permanently damaged my hearing despite my best efforts to prevent it and they got complaints about volume. The one guy was an idiot and I’m glad he’s gone. The guy now is much more reasonable and is starting to see the light.

You have the solution in your post. Put your own band together and be the band that gives venues good, reasonable sound. If most bands are too loud you will be successful.

 

[fourstr00]

Hear hear, no pun intended.

My current groups are obsessed with low stage volume, and we make sure that any staff we meet at load in know it. I’ll be damned, but it seems to be a contributing factor in getting asked back.

Also, if your drummer doesn’t like brushes, check out hot rods or cool rods.

 

[buldog5151bass]

There are two things I will not tolerate, no matter what else is happening - lack of preparation and excessive volume.

You can still run whatever you want through FOH - the mixer has a volume pot.

 

[two fingers]

This would get it done for most bands. The drum shield does two things.

1) It blocks some of the sound coming off the drums.

2) It reflects a lot of that sound back at the drummer. Usually this forces them to play a little softer because they are blowing their own ears out.

It's not their fault. Drums are naturally loud. A rock drummer with a very light touch sounds like crap to me.

But if you somewhat isolate the drums, the rest of us can take it down a notch.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

I grew tired of fighting that amongst band members over the years as well. And bottom line, some people will never get it.

Our 3 piece is bass/guitar/cajon, and we're all of the same opinion that being asked to turn up is the preferable option. Maybe the fact that we're all in our early 50's is part of that, something about age and experience leads to wisdom?

But I agree that many places won't hire any bands anymore because their experience has been fighting all night over volume.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Buy a digital mixer like the Behringer XR18 or X32 -- it makes it really easy to run IEMs and individual monitor mixes. Start a band where the goal is to have as close to no stage volume as possible. That could mean electronic drums and digital guitar rigs like the Kemper Profiler or Avid. If the guitarists insist on amps & cabs, it's gotta be bedroom volume and mic'd into the PA. Volume's gotta come thru their IEMs, not their amps. It can be done. If you're up front about it when searching for band mates, you may find some people who have the same mindset that you do about volume.

 

[jshinal]

A huge part of the problem is that for many years we've been buying the wrong equipment (not bass players, we're perfect).

But those of us who play drums are buying exotic heads and so-called Rock Crash or Heavy Ride cymbals, all of which have to be struck pretty hard to get a full and natural tone out of them. The Wrong Gear. A medium volume set can be put together, but you want the old style thinner shells, lighter coated heads, medium thin cymbals, etc.

It's the same for guitar players. It's a rare gig that you can't use a 35w to 50w amp and a 2x12 cabinet. Yet we have many fine companies making 3-channel 120w heads with multiple gain stages for the guitar market. Don't get me wrong, these amps are big fun, sound great and are well made...but it's like driving a drag racing car around to get the groceries. The Wrong Gear.

These days there is no longer an excuse in saying "I need to turn my amp up to get my sound." There are too many excellent ways to get that amp grind, or subtle overdrive. The audience doesn't give a damn about "my tone," and if I say otherwise, I'm wrong, clueless and being selfish. Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall DSL - but it's a 50-watter, and runs into a good 2x12. We don't have to be so loud, we just need to get over buying The Wrong Gear.

 

[filmtex]

Played outside on a patio at a winery in December. FOH was two powered 12's with a Soundcraft UI16, one powered 12 monitor. Only vocals through FOH. Told the young lady tending the outside bar to give me a sign if we got too loud. She was amazed! Nobody had EVER mentioned volume to her. We had a successful show, they brought us back two weeks later and I brought my powered 15's but still only put vocals through the PA and kept the volume down. Booked eight shows for next year! People had gone out of their way to let management know how good the sound was. For reference- my rig is an Ampeg BA-210, guitar player uses a (very) small Fender tube amp and the drummer is very dynamic and know when to get loud. Dynamic is the key here IMHO.

 

[IamGroot]

I tell the guys in my band all the time- make them tell us to turn up, not the other way around.


I've never lost a gig for playing too quietly.

I think it was your jam where Rik threw the guitarist out for playing too loud. Also, where one of your regulars asked me turn up and I i said "Im fine, you turn down" and he did.

On pro gigs that I play, volume is almost mever a problem. Includes two sub jobs last weekend with total strangers. Those musicians learned the volume knob as well as their scales.

 

[buldog5151bass]

A huge part of the problem is that for many years we've been buying the wrong equipment (not bass players, we're perfect).

But those of us who play drums are buying exotic heads and so-called Rock Crash or Heavy Ride cymbals, all of which have to be struck pretty hard to get a full and natural tone out of them. The Wrong Gear. A medium volume set can be put together, but you want the old style thinner shells, lighter coated heads, medium thin cymbals, etc.

It's the same for guitar players. It's a rare gig that you can't use a 35w to 50w amp and a 2x12 cabinet. Yet we have many fine companies making 3-channel 120w heads with multiple gain stages for the guitar market. Don't get me wrong, these amps are big fun, sound great and are well made...but it's like driving a drag racing car around to get the groceries. The Wrong Gear.

These days there is no longer an excuse in saying "I need to turn my amp up to get my sound." There are too many excellent ways to get that amp grind, or subtle overdrive. The audience doesn't give a damn about "my tone," and if I say otherwise, I'm wrong, clueless and being selfish. Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall DSL - but it's a 50-watter, and runs into a good 2x12. We don't have to be so loud, we just need to get over buying The Wrong Gear.

212? A 25 watt 112 will get you plenty loud. Any drummer who can't regulate his volume is not a good drummer. You should be able to play rock, jazz, whatever at a volume where you can speak with each other without shouting (other than the drummer).

 

[IamGroot]

Telling folks to turn down has limited success.

Playing softer and softer on bass is my approach at jams and gigs that i am burning bridges with.

 

[micguy]

I play in worship bands at church. None of them have any amps on stage, drums have shields, everyone is on in ears - no wedges. It's quieter on stage than in the audience. Of course, the low end from the subs goes everywhere, which...I like.

I do play one gig, where I use an amp, but it's a mostly acoustic gig, and we are very conscious of our volumes. One of the musicians plays a harp. Not a harmonica, a harp - the 7 foot tall thing with strings on it. If I couldn't control my volume, I couldn't do that gig - noone is ever OK with someone drowning out a harp, including me.

The volume problem is solvable. You just have to decide (and have everyone agree) that it's worth it. If even one person isn't bought in, it won't work. It is, however, worth it.

 

[rocu]

Any drummer playing acoustic drums on a local scene ought to use brushes( whatever they’re called) otherwise it’s a volume war. I think i just invented a phrase there- Volume Whore.

Volume Whore is a good name for a band.

 

[jcerio]

I'm struggling with this problem in my current band. We play southern rock. One of our guitarists is just crushingly loud. I use earplugs religiously(Etymotic ER20) and when we are in rehearsal he is so loud that I can't hear my head voice! I've tried unsuccessfully to get him to turn down, but it doesn't seem to work. He wears earplugs but it only seems to encourage him to crank it up. I'm concerned how well my in-ear monitors will work at our upcoming gigs. He was unable to make our last rehearsal and it was so much quieter that I think it was our most productive rehearsal ever. I brought up the volume issue to the BL and the rest of the band agrees. If the BL can't get him to bring his volume under control I may have to consider leaving the band.