Banished to the DI Zone

[David Jayne]

Definitely not denying anyone what they want to do. Just saying in my case there is no going back. Love my DI sound. Many times my stage amp is set to a sound that is less bassy and more mid-forward so I can hear my notes better but that may not be the sound I want going to FOH. So, in this case, the DI setup works really well giving the FOH a great sound to work with while my stage amp is set for my personal needs.

That's exactly where I'm coming from as well.

 

[byacey]

You're assuming that it's impossible to duplicate and that the bassist doesn't know what he/she wants. It's really not that hard to reconcile the two. Plus maybe the bass player really wants the sound that you find abhorrent. Guys like Entwistle, Squire, and Fieldy come to mind as bassists who have/had sounds that sound techs have found abhorrent but it works for them. And plenty of bassists have very pleasing sounds through their cabs that if you duplicate them in the house with the mic, they come up a winner. My sound was especially great for my band in the house, and the only complaint I ever got was once in a while someone would ask me to turn my amp up. Here's an example from a few years ago...audience recording but pretty accurate...pardon the cheesy jackets...not my idea:

Not meaning to be overly critical of the mix, I can just make out your bass, and the piano sounds like it was forgotten altogether. I see him playing accented shots, but don't hear it.
I imagine this was recorded on an Iphone or something similar.

 

[JimmyM]

Not meaning to be overly critical of the mix, I can just make out your bass, and the piano sounds like it was forgotten altogether. I see him playing accented shots, but don't hear it.
I imagine this was recorded on an Iphone or something similar.

Yeah, it was. True it's not the greatest recording ever. But I'm not looking to be the loudest thing in the band, either, and I hear the bass fine with headphones, and most of the time I hear the piano as loud as it needs to be. Not exactly a piano feature song.

 

[jnewmark]

Yeah, it was. True it's not the greatest recording ever. But I'm not looking to be the loudest thing in the band, either, and I hear the bass fine with headphones, and most of the time I hear the piano as loud as it needs to be. Not exactly a piano feature song.

Yup, I hear you just fine in my Audio-Technica , ATH M40X cans. Nice playing, Jimmy. Not my thing, but I can appreciate what you are doing, and it's also my job to " not be the loudest thing in the band " !

 

[JimmyM]

Yup, I hear you just fine in my Audio-Technica , ATH M40X cans. Nice playing, Jimmy. Not my thing, but I can appreciate what you are doing, and it's also my job to " not be the loudest thing in the band " !

Is not my thing either, but we do much better bank than any other band I played in Thx J!

 

[jnewmark]

Is not my thing either, but we do much better bank than any other band I played in Thx J!

Yup, sometimes ya gotta compromise if the gold is better, LOL !

 

[beans-on-toast]

I liked the song. I’m sure the audience did as well. Never apologize for being an entertainer.

 

[JimmyM]

I liked the song. I’m sure the audience did as well. Never apologize for being an entertainer.

Well I still don't like those cheesy white jackets! If I had a dollar for every time we wore them and someone in the crowd tried to order a drink from me...

 

[agedhorse]

Is "bank" one of the compromises within the context of the mix? Which channel is the bank channel?

 

[byacey]

Well I still don't like those cheesy white jackets! If I had a dollar for every time we wore them and someone in the crowd tried to order a drink from me...

The tune was good enough! I clamped my Sennheiser 380s against my head and I could hear the bass better; still no sign of the piano though. Even if the piano isn't really featured, I'd think you should still hear the odd note here and there, if he's laying back.

 

[theinfamous]

That's nice that you guys have your DI lines sorted. So do I. But so what? Why is that any reason to deny someone who wants his/her cab mic'ed a cab mic?

I wholeheartedly agree. At least TRY. Too many sound guys have sneared at me and rejected what I've asked for. I have two different places where a sound guy can grab an xlr signal (even though I would personally prefer to have my amp mic'd) and I'm more than accommodating. I've still had sound guys refuse to let me use my expensive gear to get a signal out of and use a direct box to put my bass direct into the board.

I GUARANTEE my sansamp sounds better than your $20 behringer di.

Too many sound guys want to make "creative decisions" that do not take into consideration what the band wants. A good sound engineer's goal should be to reproduce a bands sound as accurately as possible so that everyone can hear it, not to make decisions that will obviously affect a players sound just because "that's how I've always done it."

 

[agedhorse]

Listened to the "Make Me Smile" mix, my personal preference would be for a little more piano and bass BUT I get how the mix was built and why.

IMO, the piano and bass are the bed for the guitar which is just a hair more present. In the context of Chicago, where the horn section, percussion and vocals are the driving force, the piano, bass and guitar thicken the mix and add texture that the horn section plays against. It's an older school approach, compared with a band like Tower of Power.

I could hear the piano and guitar parts, but I'm also familiar with the song (having played the admittedly simplified piano part many years ago in a post-college band) Also provided sound for some Chicago shows maybe 20 years ago.

Nice band Jimmy, and nice playing too. I really enjoy this kind of music myself!

 

[agedhorse]

The tune was good enough! I clamped my Sennheiser 380s against my head and I could hear the bass better; still no sign of the piano though. Even if the piano isn't really featured, I'd think you should still hear the odd note here and there, if he's laying back.

Listen to the piano and guitar combination. Together they make up the part, mostly chord progressions that with the guitar create texture that the horn parts play off of.

 

[Wasnex]

Is "bank" one of the compromises within the context of the mix?

IMHO, Absolutely!

 

[beans-on-toast]

Well I still don't like those cheesy white jackets! If I had a dollar for every time we wore them and someone in the crowd tried to order a drink from me...

Look at the dinner jackets like this...You’re serving up a musical platter.

Would you rather be in a glam rock band?

I thought that the brass section EQ was a little too punchy in the high end. It needed some smoothing.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi beans

Would you rather be in a glam rock band?

Or in a KISS tribute!


Wise(b)ass

 

[beans-on-toast]

Hi beans



Or in a KISS tribute!


Wise(b)ass

I liked the songs of that era.

Matthew Sweet and Susanna Hoffs have put out some very good compilations of songs in three volumes called Under the Covers, and Completely Under the Covers for all of them.

 

[Dr_Benway]

Have to say... Reading these comments makes me even more grateful for my 14 years (and counting) gig at small performing arts center/school. Our main theater is used more for large dance productions, orchestral concerts and musicals (just did Sweeney Todd), but we do lots of band concerts (mainly jazz, some blues and rock) in the smaller "black box" studio theater. Last spring we did a Bowie tribute, featuring Bowie's longtime pianist, Mike Garson. But getting to the point...

Maybe I'm spoiled by working in such a great sounding room with seasoned pros, but I've yet to do anything approaching the types of sound checks people are referring to. Most of the time the jazz bands are pickup groups supporting a featured artist. They might roll in at 6:30 for a 7pm show. I DI 99 percent of the bassists. It's been a cross between uprights and electric basses. I've never had to eq a bass in 14 years. For that matter, the only thing that really needs some equalization is the Steinway B. I use mini condensers in the piano and keep the lid closed, so I have to make sure it doesn't feedback, so that is about the only thing I take care of. When a new group comes in, they might express some trepidation, but I've never had anything but smiles looking up at me. No complaints.

A good part of it is an excellent room. The stage takes up a good third of the room and the stage sound is a big part of the house sound. The idea of sitting out in the house laboring over a bassist's "sound" is quite foreign to me.

But I am certain that in a less acoustically correct environment, my audio nirvana might go right into the sh!tter.

 

[jnewmark]

Well, since we are all putting up videos of our bass sounds, here is one of me playing bass on Johnny Rawls' new cd, I'm Still Around. I'm going out of the DI on my Genz Shuttlemax12.2, and my cab, a Schroeder 15PL, which was mic'd in a separate room. Trying for the old Stax sound, and I'm quite happy with the bass in the mix. Don't ask me what mic it was, I totally forgot. I like the DI/Mic sound, at least in the studio, for what I am doing.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Very good as always. I like the rich tone. Flats?

Johnny Rawls knows how to squeeze a good sound out of his guitar. Is it a strat?