Each nursing home resident has his own personal volume control.
If you're too loud, they turn their hearing aids down.
They're usually great gigs.
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Bar Manager Refused to Pay Us! Now what?
- Thread starter TooManyThinking
- Start date
Each nursing home resident has his own personal volume control.
If you're too loud, they turn their hearing aids down.
They're usually great gigs.
'Absolute nonsense'? No. But you're right, it's damned unlikely - although I have known some bookers who would. My point was that the bar manager *should* have paid the band - it's why I emphasized the word 'should'. In reality though, I'd have used that as a starting point to sort out some kind of payment (of course, looking back at the OP's post, I can't see why it would have been too big of a deal to get the drummer to just sit the set out and improvise around the existing set so as to keep the venue happy and the pay-cheque safe ...).
There's a lot of talk here about being professional/unprofessional, and yet there's also a lot of talk about letting it go and forgetting the money. Who runs a business like that?!?
+1.
Although we haven't hit the big time, we started in mid 2007 playing once a month. When booking for 2008, our local bar, kind of a home base for us, asked us to play twice a month, and gave us a raise. We always bring friends and family. The bar told us we were #2 in sales of all the bands that play there. We're hired to entertain so the bar can make money.
Yeah, it leaves your band with the rep that you're difficult to work with if you don't get 100% of what you're promised every time.
That's a nice dream to have, but I've rarely found that happens.
Good venues understand the give and take and relationships can be developed and appreciate in value as that comes and goes. Over time there were places I would move a mountain for because they did what they could and treated us well as often as they could. Other places I wouldn't knock over a free glass of water on if it were on fire.
First course of action is to fire the drummer. He cost you a gig. The most give I would consider is having him reimburse the band from out of his own pocket. Give him a choice but you NEED to make an ultimatum.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Well, since the problem was caused by the OP and his band it is up to them to make amends.
I have gone to a restaurant, ordered a steak and received it cooked wrong. It was still good so I ate it. The server was bringing me the ticket and asked how it was. I told her it was fine but not cooked how I ordered. I was not complaining, I just mentioned it. She (not I) went to the manager who insisted that I get my meal free.
That was great customer service and has become one of my favorite places to eat because of it. (No, no more free meals, just great food and service).
All the manager did was ask the OP and his band to turn down. The OP admits the band did not significantly comply.
They erred.
They erred so badly this guy wouldn't pay them.
If you went to a restaraunt, ordered a steak and they would only serve you a dirt sandwich would you pay?
The band needs to make amends or at the very least drop it and learn better customer service. Either that or quit playing so they quit giving musicians with self respect and respect for others a bad name.
Simple.
Joe.
That's an excellent question... now aim it at the band.
It was apparently too big a deal for them to actually do what they were hired to do. What business would expect to get paid under those circumstances?
I honestly think this thread breaks down into two camps, those who actually gig and have a clue and those who for whatever reason simply don't get it. Most likely some of the latter will take offense at that observation too. That won't help them on the road to getting a clue but hey, if everyone acted professionally there'd probably be less work to go around
There was no legitimate reason why they couldn't meet the manager's request. None. And since that amounts to the same things as refusing to do what you're hired to do, in what other professions can you get away with that?
"You made it clear what you wanted, we decided to do what we wanted instead... now pay us".
Unless the band is called "Los Cojones Grande" and that's their schtick, I don't see it flying.
Well, since the problem was caused by the OP and his band it is up to them to make amends.
I have gone to a restaurant, ordered a steak and received it cooked wrong. It was still good so I ate it. The server was bringing me the ticket and asked how it was. I told her it was fine but not cooked how I ordered. I was not complaining, I just mentioned it. She (not I) went to the manager who insisted that I get my meal free.
That was great customer service and has become one of my favorite places to eat because of it. (No, no more free meals, just great food and service).
All the manager did was ask the OP and his band to turn down. The OP admits the band did not significantly comply.
They erred.
They erred so badly this guy wouldn't pay them.
If you went to a restaraunt, ordered a steak and they would only serve you a dirt sandwich would you pay?
The band needs to make amends or at the very least drop it and learn better customer service. Either that or quit playing so they quit giving musicians with self respect and respect for others a bad name.
Simple.
Joe.
re: dirt sandwich. That's different because... well, yeah, that's them.
Say you get hired at Pizza Hut. They want you to make pizzas, you decide you want to make pirogis instead. The manager asks you to stop doing that and make pizzas. So you make another pirogi. He asks again, you acknowledge... and make one more pirogi. He tells you this isn't working, you're fired.
You ask for your pay.
Meanwhile, in the real world, we're like this.
re: dirt sandwich. That's different because... well, yeah, that's them.
Say you get hired at Pizza Hut. They want you to make pizzas, you decide you want to make pirogis instead. The manager asks you to stop doing that and make pizzas. So you make another pirogi. He asks again, you acknowledge... and make one more pirogi. He tells you this isn't working, you're fired.
You ask for your pay.
Meanwhile, in the real world, we're like this.
DOH!
But...but...I LIKE pirogi!
Bwahahaha
Joe.
No, they didn't. That was the problem. If they had, it's most likely they would've been allowed to finish the gig and get paid.
Yeah, when I was a kid I tried the "We're artists and we do what we want" routine because all my rock star heroes did it, too, or so I thought. Then it almost cost us a gig, and I couldn't live with that, so we did what it took to keep the gig, and by the end, the clubowner loved us and invited us back many times.
Then I found out how many rock stars who claim they do what they want actually don't do what they want. They just tell everyone they do.
The OP will probably never come back to this thread and read this, but it might help educate someone else who ends up in the same situation. Here's my .02 coming from over 30 years playing bass and 15 years straight road work 95 % in clubs both large and small.
Point 1
GET A NEW DRUMMER, one who actually has dynamics and understands music. Settle for one who's not even as good as you currently have if he / she understands dynamics and the importance of it. Your whole group will be better for it.
Point 2
There's no pro-rate in the music world. You are hired to do a job, no more no less. If you don't do the job, you don't get paid. A sad fact, but true.
Hmm. A Friday night and BY 10:00PM the bar is not already filling up with people. Maybe the bar typically has a "late" crowd, but I would be wondering why.
Been there, done that. How was the bar set up? Was the stage facing the bar? Across or in an opposite corner? Sometimes it still doesn't matter. If the drummer is the problem - refer back to Point 1!
When the bar owner / manager tells you that, the gig IS OVER PERIOD. If you want to ever play there again, you must eat crow. Apologize to the club owner, take your licks and leave. If you plan on never playing there again, still eat crow, say your sorry and leave. Be nice and kill him with kindness, tell him you're sorry your group wasn't what he was looking for, pack up and leave. You don't know how many other club managers / owners he might know and you don't want to give your group a bad rap that might affect future gigs elsewhere. Don't threaten a lawsuit. You didn't fulfill your end of the gig period. It's too bad you didn't get paid, but see Point 2.
If you did try to sue, you just killed your own case with that statement. Um, I'm sure the bar's lawyers could build a nice case using that. They just bring in 10 or 20 patrons who say "I had to leave, the music was just too loud and is was making the band sound awful". Case lost by you and closed.
Yep, every bar is set up different. All the more reason to have members in your group (including soundman) who understand the relationship of musical dynamics and room dynamics and how they interact with a full or empty house. Hmm.... go back again to Point 1. In your defense, maybe the bar across the street is the hot place to go and your bar is thinking that if he puts in live music, he can clean up. The problem is that maybe he's not set up for live music. Maybe your group could hear that the band across the street was getting to kick it, so you cranked up to compete. Whatever the reason, you were still hired to do a job and you failed to do it.
That's good but remember... There's a first time for everything.
Please, grow up and move on. Laywers are not the answer to everything. Leave them alone to tackle really important stuff, not a disagreement over $350.00. Get a decent drummer and chalk it up to experience. Take your new drummer to the bar across the street and play to a packed house. Then pop across the street and say hello to the bar owner who didn't like you. If you can't handle rejection, don't play bars.
Probably not the answer you wanted but worthwhile to ponder over anyway.
Point 1
GET A NEW DRUMMER, one who actually has dynamics and understands music. Settle for one who's not even as good as you currently have if he / she understands dynamics and the importance of it. Your whole group will be better for it.
Point 2
There's no pro-rate in the music world. You are hired to do a job, no more no less. If you don't do the job, you don't get paid. A sad fact, but true.
Hmm. A Friday night and BY 10:00PM the bar is not already filling up with people. Maybe the bar typically has a "late" crowd, but I would be wondering why.
Been there, done that. How was the bar set up? Was the stage facing the bar? Across or in an opposite corner? Sometimes it still doesn't matter. If the drummer is the problem - refer back to Point 1!
When the bar owner / manager tells you that, the gig IS OVER PERIOD. If you want to ever play there again, you must eat crow. Apologize to the club owner, take your licks and leave. If you plan on never playing there again, still eat crow, say your sorry and leave. Be nice and kill him with kindness, tell him you're sorry your group wasn't what he was looking for, pack up and leave. You don't know how many other club managers / owners he might know and you don't want to give your group a bad rap that might affect future gigs elsewhere. Don't threaten a lawsuit. You didn't fulfill your end of the gig period. It's too bad you didn't get paid, but see Point 2.
If you did try to sue, you just killed your own case with that statement. Um, I'm sure the bar's lawyers could build a nice case using that. They just bring in 10 or 20 patrons who say "I had to leave, the music was just too loud and is was making the band sound awful". Case lost by you and closed.
Yep, every bar is set up different. All the more reason to have members in your group (including soundman) who understand the relationship of musical dynamics and room dynamics and how they interact with a full or empty house. Hmm.... go back again to Point 1. In your defense, maybe the bar across the street is the hot place to go and your bar is thinking that if he puts in live music, he can clean up. The problem is that maybe he's not set up for live music. Maybe your group could hear that the band across the street was getting to kick it, so you cranked up to compete. Whatever the reason, you were still hired to do a job and you failed to do it.
That's good but remember... There's a first time for everything.
Please, grow up and move on. Laywers are not the answer to everything. Leave them alone to tackle really important stuff, not a disagreement over $350.00. Get a decent drummer and chalk it up to experience. Take your new drummer to the bar across the street and play to a packed house. Then pop across the street and say hello to the bar owner who didn't like you. If you can't handle rejection, don't play bars.
Probably not the answer you wanted but worthwhile to ponder over anyway.
In the business world, performing a certain amount of work for which you never get paid - for which you realize in advance that you'll probably never get paid - is a lot more common than you may realize...
It's actually a rather widespread practice in the service sector, where the client is typically unaware of certain necessary tasks that are difficult to explain, and hence, difficult to justify - particularly when one's competition doesn't make a practice of doing it. In situations like that, it can often be much easier to try to make up the lost profit elsewhere on the project - or just write it off as a cost of doing business...
MM
Well if you guys played for a good chunk of the night, I think you at LEAST deserve half of what you agreed on, but this seems to be a situation with many variables.
The club sounds like it wasn't really set up for a live band very well and it sounds like your drummer wasn't well-suited for playing bar gigs lol. My advice, is that you need to have a stern talk with the drummer and go "You really need to get a grip on your volume, or maybe try some different sticks because now you are messing with the band's reputation and costing us money as well." That's why we got rid of our last drummer, a 6'4" kid who was a good player but was self-taught as well and had the same volume issue. Big drummers are fun when you are rocking huge gigs, but when it's small places, they really are kinda hard to deal with =/
The club sounds like it wasn't really set up for a live band very well and it sounds like your drummer wasn't well-suited for playing bar gigs lol. My advice, is that you need to have a stern talk with the drummer and go "You really need to get a grip on your volume, or maybe try some different sticks because now you are messing with the band's reputation and costing us money as well." That's why we got rid of our last drummer, a 6'4" kid who was a good player but was self-taught as well and had the same volume issue. Big drummers are fun when you are rocking huge gigs, but when it's small places, they really are kinda hard to deal with =/
The best part of playing of nursing homes? You only need 3 songs. By the time you finish the last one, they've forgotten the other two ...
They get hired to play muisic, and to get and keep people. You don't get people, you don;t get did.
Period.
Andy
Once an email hits my server, it is mine to do what I want with. This part of the signature has no legal binding on the receiver, it is just meant to spook them.
The best part of playing of nursing homes? You only need 3 songs. By the time you finish the last one, they've forgotten the other two ...
Hmm... I'm mighty tempted to sig that one, bro...
MM
