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Bass amp modeling?

#141
Warwick Qc418 said:
Would you say the same thing about the Genz Benz Focus and Neox line, especially Focus 115 + 210? I have a feeling the 2 together are very well balanced but wanted to ask.
Thanks
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In general, the fall into the more neutral category, with the Focus being a little warmer and the NeoX being a little more modern.
 
#143
I've used a Kemper in the studio and gotten great results with it. The problem with Kemper in the past is that there were not a lot of really good available profiles. Getting better now though I think. I found a really good B15 profile done by someone who knew what they were doing in terms of mic placement, etc. Also found a good SVT profile and a good Bassman profile. Most of the SVT profiles were really super overdriven. Not my cup of tea. Also, I don't know why you would profile an Eden WT800 that was completely fuzzed out.
 
#145
Brian Dupre said:
If you have a couple of bread and butter tones that you love and use 90% of the time, yeah, probably no point in modeling.
But some of us want endless tonal possibilities for various reasons. Personally I don't even use the amp modeling much on my Helix, but the routing options (both internal dsp and external effects loops) make things possible that before would have required tons of rack gear and/or dozens of pedals. It can actually simplify things for tone tweakers.
Neither way is right or wrong though. Honestly sometimes I wish I had the plug and play mindset; it would probably save me lots of money and time.
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I think the biggest appeal for me with the Helix is the ability to setup a virtual pedalboard for this gig and a virtual pedalboard for the next. Even for different sets it could be useful. But I'm hesitant because in the past I've always. One up short in one area or another with the modeling gear - ended up needing an outboard compressor or overdrive or whatever pedal. Maybe I should give the Helix a shot, it's at the point that it's reliable and mature. Tired of being the early adopter.
 
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#146
Brian Dupre said:
If you have a couple of bread and butter tones that you love and use 90% of the time, yeah, probably no point in modeling.
But some of us want endless tonal possibilities for various reasons. Personally I don't even use the amp modeling much on my Helix, but the routing options (both internal dsp and external effects loops) make things possible that before would have required tons of rack gear and/or dozens of pedals. It can actually simplify things for tone tweakers.
Neither way is right or wrong though. Honestly sometimes I wish I had the plug and play mindset; it would probably save me lots of money and time.
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Absolutely no way is wrong, just different kinds of right :)

I like to tweak myself, but I find that too many kinds of options for me can lead to analysis paralysis. Plus, I've never seen a modeling amp in person, and I don't like ordering stuff without playing through it first.
 
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#147
MultiScaleMale said:
I think the biggest appeal for me with the Helix is the ability to setup a virtual pedalboard for this gig and a virtual pedalboard for the next. Even for different sets it could be useful. But I'm hesitant because in the past I've always. One up short in one area or another with the modeling gear - ended up needing an outboard compressor or overdrive or whatever pedal. Maybe I should give the Helix a shot, it's at the point that it's reliable and mature. Tired of being the early adopter.
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Yeah, the Helix does sadly come up short in one area: Pitch shifting. It's honestly terrible and eats up a lot of DSP to boot. It's weird because to my ears, the amp modeling and distortion sound FANTASTIC, and things like the compressors, delay, reverb, etc. sound pretty good. It's like they didn't even try on the pitch shifting.
Because of this, I still own an Eventide H9 for shifting. I also have a Ventris for my reverb because it helps free up some DSP for other things (also like everything Source Audio the Ventris sounds awesome). The Helix has a lot of processing power, but you can max out the DSP if you go crazy.
The way you can do the effects chains and routing make it more than worthwhile though IMO. I have a preset right now that I love that is a quad band distortion: I use all four effects chains and then just use the internal crossovers and EQs to distort my lows, low mids, high mids and highs separately. Sounds really grindy yet piano-esque at the same time.
 
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#149
Brian Dupre said:
If you have a couple of bread and butter tones that you love and use 90% of the time, yeah, probably no point in modeling.
But some of us want endless tonal possibilities for various reasons. Personally I don't even use the amp modeling much on my Helix, but the routing options (both internal dsp and external effects loops) make things possible that before would have required tons of rack gear and/or dozens of pedals. It can actually simplify things for tone tweakers.
Neither way is right or wrong though. Honestly sometimes I wish I had the plug and play mindset; it would probably save me lots of money and time.
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Yes, the Helix is a powerful control center. Like anything, it has its pluses and minuses, but its versatile. I look at it as a decent preamp with tons of options.

The FX loops are very clean.

This 6 space rack with the drawer mounted pedals is very powerful, I haven't begun to run out of new things to try...

p1020582_1-jpg.jpg
 
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#153
Used an SVT with 2 cabs from 1970's to 1980's, even rebuilt it and serviced it myself.
Have used Line 6 since 2006(BassPodXTLive>HD500X>Helix). Run DI and IEM at our main gig, into BOSE at others(each player has 1) and earplugs at the non-IEM gigs. The above said, there are other rack rigs here that sound great(SansAmp>dbx16xL>QSC2402>any cabinet). There is a Kustom tube amp here that can be run at 5 or 15 watts that works well with an MXR 10 band pedal EQ pushing it if one wants "real tube" distortion.

The Helix set of bass amps works well for what JC does now and without carrying a ton of gear, rack, and saves hookup time/patch cable headaches. I agree 100% with this statement:
Brian Dupre said:
Yeah, the Helix does sadly come up short in one area: Pitch shifting. It's honestly terrible and eats up a lot of DSP to boot. It's weird because to my ears, the amp modeling and distortion sound FANTASTIC, and things like the compressors, delay, reverb, etc. sound pretty good.
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Even the XT Live did pitch shifts better than the Helix IMO. My primary use for that function is to drive it down 1 octave and NOT have to carry a 5 string for the 3 or 4 songs one is used in that we do. The Helix has a major tracking and electronic glitch sound/artifact that I've not been able to remove. If I ever solve it I'll leave the solution at TB. The XT and HD500X did not have those issues.

Line 6 is paying attention to bassist somewhat as we now have a number of amps and got Billy Sheehan's Pearce models now.


Tubes: I'll use 'em if you carry them to the gig and set them up for me.
Models: work well if you spend LOT of time tweaking them for YOUR basses and YOUR speakers/amps.
 
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#154
Manticore said:
I own and use a Kemper and really have no desire to go back to using a dedicated bass rig. It capably and accurately reproduces a vast array of different amps and cabs in three rack spaces that weigh just a few pounds. Profiles are available from a number of sources both paid and free. You can also profile any amp and/or amp/cab combination you chose as long as you have access to that amp and/or cab. Keep in mind a profile you create will be specific to that particular amp. Once you've mastered its operation you'll have ready access to a huge array of different sounding amps, cabs and amp/cab combinations. You'll be able to alter the parameters of those profiles as you would any other amp. It takes far less time to set up and tear down at each gig, you'll have highly consistent tone from night to night and throughout each night. It really is a wonderful tool for the working bassist.

I haven't mentioned the use of a Kemper recently because my opinion doing so is vastly superior to having a dedicated bass rig became somewhat incendiary, particularly among the all-tube head and monster cab users. I want to be very specific: my opinion about a Kemper being superior to a dedicated bass rig is strictly my own opinion and is not intended to be derogatory toward those preferring to use a dedicated bass rig.
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As a guitarist with a recenly purchased bass (my first) I was curious about what type of cab to use. I currently use Amplitube 4 that I run through the effects loop of a Crate Power lock into a 12 in. Cab loaded with an Organic Timber speaker. Any reason to change that setup for bass?
 
#156
Zulujos said:
As a guitarist with a recenly purchased bass (my first) I was curious about what type of cab to use. I currently use Amplitube 4 that I run through the effects loop of a Crate Power lock into a 12 in. Cab loaded with an Organic Timber speaker. Any reason to change that setup for bass?
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I don't use a dedicated bass cab. I go straight into the board. I have my own monitor mix and hear myself through IEMs or wedges.
 
#157
I suppose that answers my question. The Organic Timber speaker was voiced for amp modelling. Common sense tells me that if you're running software like Amplitube while utilizing a s.s. amp (and bypassing the tone circuit) that it would defeat the purpose of choosing amp models and cab models by running it through a bass cabinet.
 
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#159
I replaced my bass amp rig with a Fractal Audio Systems Axe-FX II years ago and haven't looked back.

The lack of xcommercial bass cab IR files that felt real and didn't feel overly worked with EQ led me to start my own IR company supporting bass cabs. If you haven't tried the Line 6 Helix, Kemper, or Fractal products through some quality monitoring at gig level or headphones in a mix environment, IMHO you will be pleasantly surprised how good it feels. YMMV
 
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#160
Hey guys, I'm a new user returning to bassplaying after what... must ba a 20+ year break. My god alot has happened in that time! Ok, so i did a search for amp modeling software and stumbled upon this thread. Given im a newbie again i don't have all the criteria you guys might have, but i did find Kuassa Cerberus which works out perfectly for me. It can as i understand be used as a plugin in you DAW, AND as a standalone product. Slightly limited but it sounds awesome to me! Well worth a shot in my opinion. This might've been covered in the thjread earlier. If so i appologize, i only got throught the first 2 and the last page of threads in the discussion.

Anyway i'm stoked to be here as i have 20 years of catching up to do hahaha :D
 
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