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Bass Player RIP...

the whole point of a magazine is to get eyes on ads. It's NOT to conveniently lay out information in a way such as to help you get to it more quickly. Far from it. In fact, the OPPOSITE of that. If you are able to get to the information you want, and ONLY the information you want, quickly, then you aren't thumbing through the magazine looking for it. If you aren't thumbing through the magazine, you are getting repeat views of their ads. If you aren't getting repeat views of their ads, the ads won't be effective. If the ads aren't effective, vendors will stop buying ads. No ads, no magazine.

So, in essence, if you guys got your way, the magazine would have folded years ago because the ads would have been even less effective even earlier.

It's not the job of the publisher to make it easy for you to get YOUR favorite info. It's their job to try to get you to glance at their ads as often as possible.

TV gets paid for by commercials. At some point (if they already haven't) they will figure out how to measure what percentage of ads are getting the fast forward treatment (and thus less effective). Once that happens, TV will start to struggle as well.

Sports get paid for by ad revenue (both college and pro). You think ticket sales at Alabama make them a zillion dollars? Nope. ESPN (or whatever network) contracts make them a zillion dollars. ESPN is paid for by ads, no so much subscriber (especially these days).

Radio (both over the air and internet) gets paid for by ad revenue.

If we start doing away with ads of every kind, many of the things we really like will go away. Had BP magazine provided easy access to small blocks of content (either with index pages or search engines) the ad companies would have figured out immediately that their ads were not going to be seen.

I used to sell radio ads in the 90s. I competed against print and video media (as well as other radio stations, of course). Luckily, I was doing that right before the interwebz stood everything on its head.
But that's silly. BP mag doesn't get money every time I look at an ad, they only get money when they sell me the magazine. Once they sell me my copy, they have their money. All that is a done deal - done, over, paid for, and I got the t-shirt. And that's a fact. There is absolutely no way they or anyone else knows what ads I look at or how many times I look at them - so it is completely different from TV. Once again I find your argument far from compelling.

Anyway, adding a feature that lets me better use the magazines I *already own* - and have already read from cover to cover - would only help to secure my loyalty and keep my subscription sold. Whereas without that feature now I am going to let my subscription lapse.

Also, when I am searching for a particular transcription I am just looking at the covers. The transcriptions are always listed on the cover. So I am not looking through the magazines, not looking at ads that were sold and paid for decades ago, not doing what you asserted is happening. Your argument is utterly besides the point and incorrect.

BP isn't creating an online index because think they're saving money, but serving your customer is the old fashioned way of doing business: creating loyalty and building a relationship that could last a lifetime. They also sell reprints at an very high price; the index would drive reprint sales as well. They are being penny-wise and pound-foolish, and their declining circulation and revenue reflect that, as well as reflecting the changing landscape of the print media market.
 
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But that's silly. BP mag doesn't get money every time I look at an ad, they only get money when they sell me the magazine. Once they sell me my copy, they have their money. All that is a done deal - done, over, paid for, and I got the t-shirt. And that's a fact. There is absolutely no way they or anyone else knows what ads I look at or how many times I look at them - so it is completely different from TV. Once again I find your argument far from compelling.

Anyway, adding a feature that lets me better use the magazines I *already own* - and have already read from cover to cover - would only help to secure my loyalty and keep my subscription sold. Whereas without that feature now I am going to let my subscription lapse.

Also, when I am searching for a particular transcription I am just looking at the covers. The transcriptions are always listed on the cover. So I am not looking through the magazines, not looking at ads that were sold and paid for decades ago, not doing what you asserted is happening. Your argument is utterly besides the point and incorrect.

BP isn't creating an online index because think they're saving money, but serving your customer is the old fashioned way of doing business: creating loyalty and building a relationship that could last a lifetime. They also sell reprints at an very high price; the index would drive reprint sales as well. They are being penny-wise and pound-foolish, and their declining circulation and revenue reflect that, as well as reflecting the changing landscape of the print media market.

Advertising doesn't work that way. Not even close. It is specifically designed so that yiu don't even know you're participating.

Subscription fees are a drop in the bucket compared to ad revenue.

And it's all psychology. The ads are trying to convince you to buy something using psychology. The magazine is trying to convince their clients that magizine ads are the reason for their success. The client is trying to convince the magazine that they only "kind of" need to place ads with them.

Make no mistake, my friend. YOU are not their customer for buying their magazine for a buck ninety nine per issue. Ampeg and Fender and Warmoth and GK and Bass Central and GC and Hipshot and Aguilar are their most important customers because they place ads for thousands per issue.

You have the relationship backwards and don't even know it. ;)

So, I own Acme Bass Guitar company. I have been placing a $27,000 ad every month for a decade. I call BP Mag and tell them I want them to do "XYZ". The "end user" (that would be you) would rather the magazine do "ABC". You think they are going to tell the CEO of Acme "We can't do XYZ because that would slightly inconvenience our readers!!!"???

Uh. No. Not happening.

You were never their customer. You were an excuse for Acme to run ads with the magazine. The magazine was only a method by which Acme got directly to your eyes.

BP making you think the content was all about you was what we called in the ad business "the dance". :cool: You can never lead. The magazine (or TV station, or web site, or radio station) ALWAYS leads the dance.
 
Advertising doesn't work that way. Not even close. It is specifically designed so that yiu don't even know you're participating.

Subscription fees are a drop in the bucket compared to ad revenue.

And it's all psychology. The ads are trying to convince you to buy something using psychology. The magazine is trying to convince their clients that magizine ads are the reason for their success. The client is trying to convince the magazine that they only "kind of" need to place ads with them.

Make no mistake, my friend. YOU are not their customer for buying their magazine for a buck ninety nine per issue. Ampeg and Fender and Warmoth and GK and Bass Central and GC and Hipshot and Aguilar are their most important customers because they place ads for thousands per issue.

You have the relationship backwards and don't even know it. ;)

So, I own Acme Bass Guitar company. I have been placing a $27,000 ad every month for a decade. I call BP Mag and tell them I want them to do "XYZ". The "end user" (that would be you) would rather the magazine do "ABC". You think they are going to tell the CEO of Acme "We can't do XYZ because that would slightly inconvenience our readers!!!"???

Uh. No. Not happening.

You were never their customer. You were an excuse for Acme to run ads with the magazine. The magazine was only a method by which Acme got directly to your eyes.

BP making you think the content was all about you was what we called in the ad business "the dance". :cool: You can never lead. The magazine (or TV station, or web site, or radio station) ALWAYS leads the dance.

Let me see if I have it, @two fingers...

1. Join TB

2. See ads

3. Buy basses, amps, pedals, straps, everything in sight

4. Upgrade membership, no ads

5. Buy even more basses, amps, pedals, straps, opening eyes even wider, so as to see even more of everything in sight

Yes? :D
 
NewBay Media (which owned Bass Player, Guitar World, Guitar Player and more) was bought by Invalid Link Removed a month or two back. I would guess that many of the lost jobs at BP were do to redundancy across company lines.

All of the marketing contacts that I deal with for ad placement are still there, and I have heard nothing about any of the mags stopping.

BP moved pretty much all of its staff, even the Sr Editors role, to freelance status some time ago ( year or so ?), and the "staffing" for BP has been very skinny for several years, so I'm not sure that BP really lost much in this recent move.

As Jon Moody mentioned, Future bought NewBay Media about a month ago and severely cut the staff at Guitar Player (pretty much only leaving one Sr. Editor in place for the time being). I understand that Future did something similar to Guitar World too.

To the best of my knowledge, Futures plans for any of the NewBay publications have not been revealed to those few who still are employed.

print media is no picnic

This and this. Not limited to BP alone. All the magazines in that group.
 
I've been a Bass Player subscriber for quite a few years and I agree that the editorial quality has been going down for awhile.

Since Future PLC paid good money for it and other NewBay Media properties, I doubt that it will go away, but its going to change.

Right now, I'm going to guess that they'll look to one of their staffs in the UK to step in to carry the ball going forward. I think that's a good thing.

If you've ever read "Guitarist" magazine from the UK, its content is far better than Guitar Player ever was. I bet that Future PLC can put together a better editorial team for Bass Player too.
 
Let me see if I have it, @two fingers...

1. Join TB

2. See ads

3. Buy basses, amps, pedals, straps, everything in sight

4. Upgrade membership, no ads

5. Buy even more basses, amps, pedals, straps, opening eyes even wider, so as to see even more of everything in sight

Yes? :D

Actually, the model here works either way, and likely balances out pretty well.

Don't want to pay for a membership? No problem. The more of us who don't the more eyes on the ads... so the price of ads goes up. Pay for a membership? Still works out for TB.

Now, I don't have any problems with it at all. Not only do I wish them even more success, but they have clearly put forth a product that is incredibly effective at reaching more and more bass players every day. And the majority of content is provided by us.

It's brilliant, frankly.

I'm not saying they don't do anything. Far from it. I'm just saying it's an effective and efficient process where everyone gets what they want.

As the end user, I love it here. The vendors reach eager eyes with their ads (and other content if they are commercial accounts). I often get the latest information straight from designers at Mesa, high ranking guys at string manufacturers, endorsing artists, etc. And, hopefully, it's profitable for the guys here at TB.
 
NewBay Media (which owned Bass Player, Guitar World, Guitar Player and more) was bought by Invalid Link Removed a month or two back. I would guess that many of the lost jobs at BP were do to redundancy across company lines.

All of the marketing contacts that I deal with for ad placement are still there, and I have heard nothing about any of the mags stopping.
thank-you. some actual solid info!
 
I subscribed for a 2 year period at a vast discount rate but was generally underwhelmed by it.

When I was a kid, American Guitar and Rock coverage publications were thick with quality and a lot ads.
Now they are just a lot of ads and very little substance.

For a while I was a big fan of a Mojo Mag out of the UK but even it has succumbed to a reduction in quality and substance.
 
i've subscribed for years, never a problem with billing or delivery. has the product changed? oh, hell yes, but for $15 annually ( yes, that's what i pay, ) the ed friedland columns alone make it worthwhile, especially now that he's begun a new regional / chronological music series. if they decide to make it an online-only proposition, i'll go right along. until then i'll proceed as usual.
 
@two fingers is correct. From motorcycle mags to newspapers, ad revenue is what drives the business AND pays for editors, writers and staff.

Writers are usually the first cut.

In BPs case, and the Denver Post and other media, if you look up the definition of market harvesting you'll see the future.
 
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I remember when I was in high school and couldn't afford a subscription I would just go to B&N and read them there. Occasionally buying one when I could. Now its rare that I can find BP in any store.

I had yearly subscriptions off and on over the years but just let it lapse again recently. I should probably give them another shot.
 
Actually, the model here works either way, and likely balances out pretty well.

Don't want to pay for a membership? No problem. The more of us who don't the more eyes on the ads... so the price of ads goes up. Pay for a membership? Still works out for TB.

Now, I don't have any problems with it at all. Not only do I wish them even more success, but they have clearly put forth a product that is incredibly effective at reaching more and more bass players every day. And the majority of content is provided by us.

It's brilliant, frankly.

I'm not saying they don't do anything. Far from it. I'm just saying it's an effective and efficient process where everyone gets what they want.

As the end user, I love it here. The vendors reach eager eyes with their ads (and other content if they are commercial accounts). I often get the latest information straight from designers at Mesa, high ranking guys at string manufacturers, endorsing artists, etc. And, hopefully, it's profitable for the guys here at TB.

Agree... the point I was trying to entertain is whether the ads are present, or not, most are going to open their wallets, regardless.

I don't think my planets have aligned, since I don't know when...
 
I let my subscription lapse about 8 years ago. I was pretty much only interested in the gear reviews for the last couple of years but the subscription costs were much,much higher for me than an American customer...which cheesed me off greatly. I had had enough of the ever increasing number of typos and errors.
 
Ugh, I wonder what kind of ripple effect this might have on the Bass Player Live event held every year?

I went to the one in SoCal last year and had an amazing time. While I’m not 100% certain, I think the event and the magazine are either affiliated somehow OR the magazine sponsors the event?

A few members here on TB and myself were looking forward to going again this year...

I guess we’ll find out soon enough.
 

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