Bass theory question

[groooooove]

I have a regular, 4-string bass, tuned EADG.
I tune my bass down one half-step.
I play the open string on the 4th (top) string.
What note am I playing?

on the question of Eb vs D#, it's actually context dependent based on the music you are playing. in a given musical moment, there is correct and incorrect answer as to how to spell the note.

for the most part, we would call it Eb since the standard tuning is E and we've lowered it.

interestingly, though, once you've tuned down the instrument is now transposing - the way a trumpet or saxophone would. so if you're tuned down it's fine and common practice to still "think" in the original keys.

when a classical bassist plays a solo, often the bass is tuned up a whole step (A E B F# from high to low.) but their music, and thinking, is still in standard tuning, if that makes sense.

 

[HolmeBass]

yea, but you said depends on key as in D#, and thats is not a key nor is Fbb.

Doesn’t mean the key itself has to be D#. Like he wrote, in the key of E major that note IS called D#.

So it depends on the key.

And D# can totally be a key. Don’t confuse key signature with key, I hate it when people do that.

 

[RGerhart]

I feel like the goal of theory in its broadest sense is to communicate music without the actual music part. So, if you are asking about detuning your E string down a half step, I think that the majority of the people in the electric bass world would think that Eb is the most common answer to your question. D# isn't wrong, but I've rarely encountered other musicians that call it that over Eb.

Semantics, semantics...

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Trumpets can be Bb. I've never heard one referred to as A#.

But of course a trumpet or a Cornet (played a Cornet in elementary school) is actually playing a Bb when his music shows a "C" notated. That is why it's called a Bb instrument. For a pianist playing the same sheet music he would be playing Bb when the trumpet sees and plays "C". If the pianist just took the trumpets chart and played the notes as written he would be a full step higher than the trumpet and that would give you a lot of very ugly dissonance!

 

[Peteyboy]

Not really the same thing. Bb is the native key of the instrument. The native key doesn't determine which enharmonic is appropriate for writing out the music. It basically means when a Bb instrument plays written C it sounds like Bb concert.

Trumpet should definitely expect to see music with written Bb and A#.

All true and erudite. But try shopping for an A# horn.

 

[wompwomp]

Don’t worry about, just enjoy the reduced tension.
Be like your strings, more relaxed!

Jimi Hendrix played a bunch of his stuff a half step down. I think of it all as in E regardless, I bet he did too. I think it's totally reasonable to do the same with a capo as well and assign the nearest sensible key to the musical ideas for ease.

whether bass or baritone or tenor or whatever I feel the fretted guitar lends itself to these sorts of folk transpositions

 

[ClassicJazz]

If the rest of the band is tuned down a half step then I am playing an E!

 

[Wasnex]

you're playing an Eb. if the pianist asks what note it is Eb,

Unless the keyboard player has and uses a transpose button.

Humorous or perhaps sad story:
I used to work in a cover band led by a sax player. We were down a keyboardist so he decided to play keys. One of the songs we played was in B major or some similarly difficult key. To get around it, he used the keyboard's transpose feature to play in an easier key.

During a high-profile gig where we were joined by several additional horn players, he forgot to reset the transpose button after the hard song. The next song started with a keyboard intro and I think it was something like Lee Greenwood's God Bless the USA.

I have (or at least had) decent relative pitch and caught the transposition error right away. Several of the horn players did not catch it. I told the guitarist sitting next to me and turned around and tried to whisper to tell the horn players to lay out. They played their first entrance and then looked at their horns quizzically (like ***!) When the entrance came around again the horns did the exact same thing. I audibly shushed them and grunted "Lay out!" They finally got it.

The guitarist and I had played to the song hundreds of times () and we had no problem transposing it by ear . Everyone had a good laugh at the group leader's expense after the show .

 

[micguy]

I know theorists can get wound up in this, but I don't care. You call E flat or D sharp, I play the same note.

Music theory is not what music is built on - it was derived after the fact to help describe why people like what they like (people played perfectly good music for thousands of years before "music theory" was a thing by listening, and doing what sounded good). When music theory begets discussions like this, it starts to leak outside its usefulness, except as an academic exercise. Feel free to ponder this as long as you like, I have a gig to practice for.

 

[IanStephenson]

In some cases a musician might choose to play an instrument in a different native key. For example a Tuba player might use a C instrument or a Bb instrument. AFAIK Tuba parts are normally written in concert key, so if the Tuba player uses a Bb instrument they will have to transpose (use different fingerings).

In the UK, Tuba's come in Eb and Bb variants... but to make things really weird, they are transposing instruments when written in treble clef but concert instruments when written in bass clef.

It might seem odd to write a tuba in treble clef, but it fits perfectly with the ethos of transposing instruments. A brass band has a whole set of instruments from soprano cornets, through horns, down to tuba's in a mix of Eb and Bb, all transposing and all written in treble clef. Once you've learned reading and fingering for one you can play any of them without modification. Tuba in an orchestral setting uses Bass cleff/concert.


To give my $0.05 on the original question, when someone tunes every string down a semitone, they're not thinking in Eb... They're thinking in E... Hendrix played Invalid Link Removed... it just sounded a semitone lower. What about all those vintage recordings that are about a quarter tone flat from A440... They're still in E, just transposed down 50cents.

 

[Wasnex]

yea, but you said depends on key as in D#, and thats is not a key nor is Fbb.

If the song is written in the key of B major, the open string will be considered D# concert.

 

[TOOL460002]

If you're asking about general bass tuning, no one is going to say they have their bass tuned to D# standard. Now, why do people say drop C# versus drop Db? I don't know. Obviously if there is a specific piece of music in mind that changes things.

 

[Wasnex]

I feel like the goal of theory in its broadest sense is to communicate music without the actual music part. So, if you are asking about detuning your E string down a half step, I think that the majority of the people in the electric bass world would think that Eb is the most common answer to your question. D# isn't wrong, but I've rarely encountered other musicians that call it that over Eb.

Semantics, semantics...

IME most will still consider it an open E string. Whether that is the best answer varies with context.

 

[SteveCS]

yea, but you said depends on key as in D#, and thats is not a key nor is Fbb.

No - the question was "What note am I playing?" A semitone below E could be Eb or D#, depending on the key. I never mentioned the key having to be D#. Think of all those keys signatures with 4 or more # in them as well as all of them with 2 or more flats...

 

[Smooth_bass88]

The top string is the G string. Top=higher, bottom=lower. You're playing YOUR G, which is actually Gb concert pitch.

I deal with this all the time as one of my main gigs tunes down a half step. We always tell keyboard players to transpose their keyboard down a half step that way when they call out shuffle in G, we just play our G, which in concert pitch Gb. With horn players, when they're asking about keys, I always say "concert pitch Eb", or "concert pitch Ab" so again, there's absolutely no confusion.

 

[Wasnex]

All true and erudite. But try shopping for an A# horn.

Not something I would advise .

 

[AK Bass Guy]

Yes, for trumpets they are usually referred to as Bb, C, D, and G (used in drum and bugle corps), but this is the tonal center of the instrument and has nothing to do with the naming of note being played.

What note you play is named after the key center of the chord or key signature.

 

[Isaac_James]

I have never heard that "guitars and basses play in sharps." Where did this come from?

Generally I would call this tuning Eb standard, but as many others here have noted that can change if the key calls for a D#.

 

[groooooove]

Doesn’t mean the key itself has to be D#. Like he wrote, in the key of E major that note IS called D#.

So it depends on the key.

And D# can totally be a key. Don’t confuse key signature with key, I hate it when people do that.

D# is a "theoretical key," but not an actual key. It would have every note sharp as well as F double sharp and C double sharp.

sometimes, a composer would actually write in that key if it's a brief time, since it may in some context be grammatically (musically) correct.

but if we're modulating to that key, it's not particularly logical to write all sharps with two double-sharps, when three flats is the enharmonic equivalent.

there are lots of examples of serious composers re-spelling the key to avoid theoretical keys. I can't think of any off hand, but I know i've seen it - likely 19th century pianist/composers such as Chopin would be the first place to look.

 

[rtslinger]

Would be a D# on a tuner if that helps
if the entire band is tune down a half step you would be playing an open E as a E only time you would need to adjust to Eb/D# is it you are going to stay in standard tuning ( don't tune down a half step but the rest of the band does) Hope this isn't confusing the heck out of you. as it did for me for a while a lot Black Sabbath songs are down tuned to C# I never down tuned I just transcribed it because others are recorded in standard tuning