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Bass theory question

What note am I playing? (read the first comment)

  • E-flat, since you tuned down from E.

    Votes: 109 73.6%

  • D-sharp, because guitars and basses play in sharps.

    Votes: 7 4.7%

  • E. The open E string is E. Always and forever.

    Votes: 8 5.4%

  • Carrots

    Votes: 24 16.2%
  • Total voters
    148
#41
Seems the most correct answer depends on which convention you use.

I think it defendable to call it Eb standard if you tune down a half step. The open strings are (Eb,Ab,Db,Gb).

It's also defendable to call it D# standard. AFAIK tuning down a half step makes the natural key of the instrument B (I.E. when you play a C it sounds like B). In order for the strings to match the natural key you get (D#,G#,C#,F#).

AFAIK there are no common B natural transposing instruments other than detuned string instruments.
 
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#45
groooooove said:
D# is a "theoretical key," but not an actual key. It would have every note sharp as well as F double sharp and C double sharp.

sometimes, a composer would actually write in that key if it's a brief time, since it may in some context be grammatically (musically) correct.

but if we're modulating to that key, it's not particularly logical to write all sharps with two double-sharps, when three flats is the enharmonic equivalent.

there are lots of examples of serious composers re-spelling the key to avoid theoretical keys. I can't think of any off hand, but I know i've seen it - likely 19th century pianist/composers such as Chopin would be the first place to look.
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You are right, but I have never heard the term “theoretical key”.

And I have seen sheet music with uncomfortable keys, including double flats as accidentals, given a modulation in the music, so a composer is not always going to re-contextualize to a simpler key.

And the main point was that the note D# exists and we need not go to any key more exotic or theoretical than E major to get there.
 
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#46
ardgedee said:
I've often played a sharp horn back in my marching band days.
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I had to play cello
1_JZ_FlO_7ZE94hv2Cv0APLQ.webp
 
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#47
HolmeBass said:
Doesn’t mean the key itself has to be D#. Like he wrote, in the key of E major that note IS called D#.

So it depends on the key.

And D# can totally be a key. Don’t confuse key signature with key, I hate it when people do that.
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Key signatures ARE the key, bro. And whether you call it D# or Eb is entirely dependent on what key signature the tune is in. If you start mixing them, it can create confusion when you play.

Anyway, here’s the most correct answer you can have in today’s world…

In classical music, some instruments transpose to a different key, such as trumpet and French horn, but the notes are still governed by what’s called the “Concert Key,” which is the key for instruments that don’t transpose, i.e. the C instruments. A lot of times you’ll hear the conductor refer to a “concert A,” and a Bb trumpet will know that it’s a B for them, because their music is written a whole step higher. But it’s still going to sound the same note.

It’s the same thing with guitars and bass. If you tune down a half step, you’re still producing an Eb on your open 4th string. But informally, they often call it an E, and that just depends on the people. It’s not exactly wrong to call it an E in those situations, but it can create confusion unless you come to an understanding.

Also, D# and Eb are the same thing, but writing a chart in Eb is MUCH easier to read and write it. On the other hand, F# is an easier key to write and read than Gb. Always go with the easiest way.
 
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#48
JimmyM said:
Key signatures ARE the key, bro. And whether you call it D# or Eb is entirely dependent on what key signature the tune is in. If you start mixing them, it can create confusion when you play.

Anyway, here’s the most correct answer you can have in today’s world…

In classical music, some instruments transpose to a different key, such as trumpet and French horn, but the notes are still governed by what’s called the “Concert Key,” which is the key for instruments that don’t transpose, i.e. the C instruments. A lot of times you’ll hear the conductor refer to a “concert A,” and a Bb trumpet will know that it’s a B for them, because their music is written a whole step higher. But it’s still going to sound the same note.

It’s the same thing with guitars and bass. If you tune down a half step, you’re still producing an Eb on your open 4th string. But informally, they often call it an E, and that just depends on the people. It’s not exactly wrong to call it an E in those situations, but it can create confusion unless you come to an understanding.

Also, D# and Eb are the same thing, but writing a chart in Eb is MUCH easier to read and write it. On the other hand, F# is an easier key to write and read than Gb. Always go with the easiest way.
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Key signatures ARE NOT the key, bro.

What is the key signature for C major?
What is the key signature for A minor?

QED
 
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#49
For those saying they’ve never heard of string instruments being referred to as “sharp instruments,” it has to do with open strings being the instruments home base. I’m not saying I agree with it. But if you use any open string on bass, guitar, violin, cello, etc, as the tonic for a key center, that key will have sharps in the key signature rather than flats. That’s all.

Conversely, most wind instruments home key centers have flats in them, like trumpet, tenor sax, and clarinet are in concert Bb.

Having some Instruments based in keys with flats (winds) and others with sharps (strings) is why beginning school wind bands and beginning string ensembles often learn in separate groups for the first few years. It’s why we don’t let kids play violin in beginning band, or let clarinet players join first year string orchestra. They need to gain the ability to read and play a fair amount of notes with flats and sharps first.


For the OP, I’d call your half-step detuned E string an E flat or D sharp depending on the key center and musical situation. If ALL my band member also tuned down a half step, then we’d most likely just call it an E natural to keep it simple.
 
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#59
Supadope said:
This thread confuses and frightens me. How can I be a musician without the ability to understand music theory?
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Some people manage it, but they’re not the norm by any means. You don’t have to be advanced with the theory, but knowing chord forms and where notes are on the neck is pretty important.
 
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#60
Either Eb or D# depending on the key signature. For instance, if you are playing in the key of Bb (2 flats B and E) then you would read it as Eb. If you are in the key of say 4 sharps or key of E then it would be written as a D#. Any pitch can be written as a sharp or flat double sharp or double flat more or less. Music manuscript wasn't thought out all at once but evolved as music got more and more complex.
 
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