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Bass through the PA or not?

Sorry for the noob question, but I wasn't having much luck searching. I play in a trio, and we just got a fairly inexpensive PA - haven't had a chance to try it out at practice yet. We got two different opinions from two different employees of the shop: one said don't run the bass through the PA (just use the amp), and one said it would be fine. What's generally considered the "correct" way to go? Here's the basic info:

Band: guitar, bass, drums and two vocal mics. Music is rock, but not hard rock (alt/country, Stonesy bar rock).

PA: Behringer powered mixer (800 watts mono/ 2x 350), Peavey 12 inch speakers (rated at 400 watts). Not planning to mic drums, and our goal is small bars and perhaps parties.

Help? Thanks, and let me know if you need more info.
 
What is the reason you want to run your bass into the PA?

You can run your bass into the PA if you want just might have to cut back the lows a bit. The one guy might have said you cant cause PA cabs can tend to get woofy with the bass signals with out having the low end put into a separate subwoofer. You should try it at a practice at the volume you want to get and see how it sounds and how the mixer handles every thing.
 
I don't really have a reason for wanting to (or not wanting to). It's really more a question: do people run the bass through PA in this situation or not? I have no experience with PA, so I'm simply ignorant.

Thanks for the advice so far....I figure we'll try it out, but I didn't want to do something damaging to the PA speakers out of my ignorance.
 
I always run in the PA. We all do. It helps for "presence" if everyone is in the PA - even if it's just a touch - like our drums.

I'm a big PA supporter. Stage amps are for your own monitoring.
 
It depends on several factors: size of your bass rig, power/quality of PA, room size, loudness of drums.


If your rig is pretty loud, then putting it through the PA might be too much. Either way, definitely EQ out some of the lows - they eat up power and can make the PA sound 'woofy,' as previously mentioned.

If the PA can handle it and your rig isnt terribly huge, then a little reinforcement can be good. It's the same reason you mic a drum kit - REINFORCEMENT. You can already hear it without the PA but the extra sound helps you accent the things that might get lost otherwise.

You may want to mic the kick as well if you are just running two vox through the PA.
 
Go through the PA, sure, but don't let them pry your amp from your fingers unless they're cold and dead first. You need a stage monitor, and nothing is better than your bass amp for that.

Funny story - we just did an outdoor wedding gig this past Saturday, and the guitar player noticed me getting my rig our of my truck. He said "Are you going to be using THAT?" We'd rented a subwoofer for FOH, so he assumed that it would be enough for me. I said "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it." He debated for a second about whether to get his amp, and decided not to. Halfway through the first or second set he was bitching about not being able to hear himself onstage, despite standing in front of a monitor that was angled up at his head. I just looked back, mentally patted my bass amp, smiled, and kept playing. The drummer also had the same debate, and he followed my advice.
 
Our rehearsal PA is similar to what you're considering: Carvin 300w x2 mixer and Yamaha 12" monitors. Bass thru this system sounds hollow and weak, even in a small rehearsal space. Substituting my Eden D112XLTs was the only way yo get a good bass tone thru the PA. You need speakers with good power handling 300+ watts RMS (not peak) and efficiency rating >98dB - something a lot of budget speakers on a stick do not have.
 
Have to say I agree with those who say not for that particular system. Your amp should be able to keep up with it. I'd only be using it for things such as vocals, keys and acoustic guitar. Even at my fiarly small church I run through my amp and use the PA as a bit of support, I imagine my PA volume to be on 2 or 3 where they guy playing his acoustic guitar di'd straight to the pa is on about 5 or 6 comparitively.
A bigger room and a bigger PA would be a different story.
 
I wouldn't run bass through that system. It'll work, but the 12" speakers and the limited power mean that the bass will rob power form the vocals. The main reason for the PA is to get those vocals out there. Running instruments through a small PA is going to muddy up your vocals.

jte

+1

But....Geddy Lee runs his bass through the PA. Albeit a much bigger and higher quality PA.

For me, the decision to run my bass through the PA depends on a number of factors: Size and quality of the PA, number of singers and other instruments in the mix, size of venue, types of songs, etc.

When I play with the rock band, I use my amp. Our sound system will not allow the singer to be heard if the PA is the only source of bass output. On the other hand, when I play with the worship team, I run through the PA.
 
Thanks so much to you all for the feedback. It sounds like we'll definitely be trying the PA just for vocals at first. If we expand and get a sub, etc. then maybe different. The guitarist's amp is not too huge either, so I think it will be fine (though the drummer is loud, but then most are). I'm very anxious to try this system out at practice. Now if my guitarist would just get back from vacation so we can put this advice to use!
 
I personally killed *two* Peavey 12inch speakers...... admittedly they had been used extensively before I ran through them, but it didn't take long for my bass to eat them alive.

I'm not allowed through the PA without a subwoofer now :bawl::bawl:

Bass does rob the vocal power biiiiiigggggg time. If you play a 5, don't even go near those speakers with it, everytime you hit the B you'll get to listen to the singer whine they can't hear themselves. :o
Don't do it! Drag your amp along until you can afford subs :).

Unless.....you *want* to destroy the speakers....then go for it :). The only way we sucessfully ran me through is if I never played the B and if I turned wayyyyyy down... and then it was like playing air guitar. You might get away with it for an hour at a low volume, but over time it will kill the speakers :spit:.
 
I always run in the PA. We all do. It helps for "presence" if everyone is in the PA - even if it's just a touch - like our drums.

I'm a big PA supporter. Stage amps are for your own monitoring.

+1. But understand that, at first you can run a touch of your bass (and everything else) through the PA, still planning on the audience hearing you primarly from your stage volume (your amp). So it's really just common sense, you're using the PA for vocals, at the correct volumes and you intentionally run any instruments, including your bass way below the vocals and I'd run everything flat. You can just barely hear the bass out of the PA, and the only time you would notice the bass in the PA, is maybe if you took it out of the PA mix - kind of a "what just happened?" feeling. It just has that presence in the PA. As your band progresses, and you either learn how to get a good mix from onstage, or you get a sound man, that's when you shift to your amp being your monitor, and the audience hears you out of the PA - you want your stage volume to be as low as possible now. I will also say though, that even though it sounds excellent for the audience to hear everything out of the PA and hear nothing from the stage (in a perfect world), it doesn't sound bad for the audience to hear kind of a mixture of what's coming off the stage, combined with your PA mix, and in many cases that's how it will be anyway because you just can't control the volume of drums, etc.

One thing I'm also learning, is that when you are running out of the PA - like any other band, on your first break you'll either hear from people, or you'll ask a friend how things sound. When I hear something like "I can't hear the bass", instead of turning the bass amp up, we bump it up in the PA instead. This way it forces you to begin heading in the right direction of having the audience primarily hear your band mixed throug the PA mains. When you do this, you eliminate so many headaches of trying to sound consistent in all the unique clubs, some where, you sound fine to the people over there, but the people way over in the back on that end, it doesn't sound very good. Running through the PA = consistent band sound.

I've been in situations where they had me turn down so low, that even though I knew they were getting a great PA mix, it was no fun and not inspiring to play. You need to be able to hear yourself enough so you're enjoying it yourself, and the rest of the band is getting off on your playing too. That's just my opinion.

Last, I'm the farthest thing from a PA expert, but one thing I think I've learned, is that, you get a much better PA mix sound in most of the clubs you'll play in, if your mains are 3 way and not 2 way. Having that 6" or 8" midrange speaker gives you that intimacy with the audience who is very close to you.
 
I find that an unsupported amp typically sounds better than supported, but running your amp through the mains is the way to go as it's less of a headache and has the added bonus of allowing the sound tech to adjust your levels/EQ.