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Bass Whammy Petition!
- Thread starter Charlatan_001
- Start date
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
That's just silly. If enough people want one, why wouldn't they? Are they sadists? Do they dislike money? lol
Maybe if we offered to pre-order them, it would help. I'd do it. If they have 100,000 orders, I bet they'd change their tune (sorry about the bad pun)
#415 here.
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
1) Visit my website www.freefiona.com and read my bio on www.davemuscato.com
2) Open mouth
3) Insert foot
Kahler, Hipshot.Well, every time a time a whammy bar thread starts everyone says DigiTech Whammy Pedal, why not the other way.
Now as you all know these sophisticated digital pedals, the larger ones at least, have several hundred parts in them.
OK so for instance this is how the pricing would go for ONE certain DSP chip in the pedal.
minimum order:100 $114 each or you could special order a handful for $600 apiece (this is why prototyping is so damn expensive.)
1000: $78
10,000: $33
50,000: $13
100,000: $9
1,000,000: $3
I wish somebody here was in the industry and could find a specific chip on the bass whammy and get some actual quotes, but this is pretty realistic, not an exageration.... AND THIS IS JUST ONE PART.
Sure digitech can make 1000 of these and it will cost $1200 in parts alone... or they can make 10,000 of them at $300 apiece in parts... remember that this is just parts... you have labor, marketing, transportation etc. I'd say parts are usually well under 10% of the total cost. That means if they wanted to get the same type of profits out of the pedal they built for $300 in parts as say some other pedal that they built for $20 in parts, then they have to charge $2000 for it.
Basically to sum it up, if they were to issue 10,000 of them, then they would probably have to sell them at $2000 apiece to make them as profitable as some of their other mediocre pedals. In todays age of corporate efficiency, that is what investors want... efficiency. Why would they invest in a company that would use $200 (in parts) to make $300 when they could easily use $30 (in parts) to make $300. That's just how it is with large companies. So hopefully someone REALLY REALLY talented and with A LOT of time will issue a boutique pedal (remember folks that these are not just caps, resistors, and a simple IC or 2) so the chances are pretty slim. It would likely take a small team of people A LOT of time... need a programmer and an electronics guy at least... hardly a chance that someone with the talent/knowledge to do both would work on this.
That said... there are WAY more guitarists than bassists... probably close to 10 times more so I would suggest you petition them to make changes on the existing whammies. That is way more realistic, atleast from the outside looking in. Now at the circuit level it might not be doable... or it still might be an issue of cost (they need a few different chips than they have been using.)
Anyways Jauquo could you do everyone here a favor and start asking them about modding the existing whammy. Maybe they could release a guitar/bass whammy and have the features everyone here wants. I am sure that if the bassists want a certain 5th up etc then guitarists could use it too.
OK so for instance this is how the pricing would go for ONE certain DSP chip in the pedal.
minimum order:100 $114 each or you could special order a handful for $600 apiece (this is why prototyping is so damn expensive.)
1000: $78
10,000: $33
50,000: $13
100,000: $9
1,000,000: $3
I wish somebody here was in the industry and could find a specific chip on the bass whammy and get some actual quotes, but this is pretty realistic, not an exageration.... AND THIS IS JUST ONE PART.
Sure digitech can make 1000 of these and it will cost $1200 in parts alone... or they can make 10,000 of them at $300 apiece in parts... remember that this is just parts... you have labor, marketing, transportation etc. I'd say parts are usually well under 10% of the total cost. That means if they wanted to get the same type of profits out of the pedal they built for $300 in parts as say some other pedal that they built for $20 in parts, then they have to charge $2000 for it.
Basically to sum it up, if they were to issue 10,000 of them, then they would probably have to sell them at $2000 apiece to make them as profitable as some of their other mediocre pedals. In todays age of corporate efficiency, that is what investors want... efficiency. Why would they invest in a company that would use $200 (in parts) to make $300 when they could easily use $30 (in parts) to make $300. That's just how it is with large companies. So hopefully someone REALLY REALLY talented and with A LOT of time will issue a boutique pedal (remember folks that these are not just caps, resistors, and a simple IC or 2) so the chances are pretty slim. It would likely take a small team of people A LOT of time... need a programmer and an electronics guy at least... hardly a chance that someone with the talent/knowledge to do both would work on this.
That said... there are WAY more guitarists than bassists... probably close to 10 times more so I would suggest you petition them to make changes on the existing whammies. That is way more realistic, atleast from the outside looking in. Now at the circuit level it might not be doable... or it still might be an issue of cost (they need a few different chips than they have been using.)
Anyways Jauquo could you do everyone here a favor and start asking them about modding the existing whammy. Maybe they could release a guitar/bass whammy and have the features everyone here wants. I am sure that if the bassists want a certain 5th up etc then guitarists could use it too.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
That's just silly. If enough people want one, why wouldn't they? Are they sadists? Do they dislike money? lol
Maybe if we offered to pre-order them, it would help. I'd do it. If they have 100,000 orders, I bet they'd change their tune (sorry about the bad pun)
#415 here.
They did not sell when they were popular and it's to costly to try to make one let alone a few new ones, plus some of the original parts are no longer available and that alone is a major problem.
Joe, I have had multiple discussions with them about the pedal and they simply are not interested. It wasn't a big seller to begin with and they have moved on and their priorities are fully in another area in regards to things going on at Digitech.
Kat's want to get mad at me but they simply need to really understand how the music business works.
I believe Behringer should show that creative German engineering and they should work on chips (or whatever it is )too. It is surely different than some circuits, capacitors etc. but they should be able to make similar things as far as they can, to Deep Impact, Bass Whammy etc.
I'm kind of doubting anyone can ever copy the Deep Impact, I or anyone in this forum (as far as I know) has never seen a schematic for one. even if we had the pedal is largely digital and thats would be near impossible to replicate.
Yes there can't be a schematic for those. It is what is programmed. That's what I was trying to tell with "it is not some circuits, capacitors.."
Oh, I see what you were getting at now. Behringer or any other big company (ie Boss etc) could easily (and do) make pitch shifters and synthesizers. The only problem is making them sound at all similar to those discontinued ones that are commanding an upwards of 600$ nowadays.
bongomania
Commercial User
Right, but Behr does have a whole squadron of software programmers and reverse-engineering experts. If anyone could do it, it'd be them.
...And for once, the construction quality wouldn't be any worse!
...And for once, the construction quality wouldn't be any worse!
Doesn't the deep impact have some sort of shield or encryption (spelling?) on the software though. I would assume the whammy does too.
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
bongomania
Commercial User
Programming itself is a form of encryption. Anything can be decompiled. Plus there are plenty of harmonization algorhithms to use, they don't have to use the exact same software Digitech used- AFAICT, the Whammy is not actually so great sounding, the big deal is only in the specific function it provides, good enough sounding for a screechy rap-metal band to use
, in a convenient expression pedal unit.Programming itself is a form of encryption. Anything can be decompiled. Plus there are plenty of harmonization algorhithms to use, they don't have to use the exact same software Digitech used- AFAICT, the Whammy is not actually so great sounding, the big deal is only in the specific function it provides, good enough sounding for a screechy rap-metal band to use
Oh, boy...the Tool junkies will hate you for that.
Programming itself is a form of encryption. Anything can be decompiled. Plus there are plenty of harmonization algorhithms to use, they don't have to use the exact same software Digitech used- AFAICT, the Whammy is not actually so great sounding, the big deal is only in the specific function it provides, good enough sounding for a screechy rap-metal band to use
with all the respect, there is no rap in any TOOL song :scowl:
Ok. I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way.
The eprom that is installed in the whammy has a program. If you have a reader for that type of eprom, you can caopy and flash another.
All you need to do is install that chip in a new whammy (assuming they are based on the same design) and you have one.
Aftermarket Parts suppliers for cars do it all the time. There is even a company out there that can reflash in the car using the OBD2 port. It switches the program from stock to modified, and can be switched back in 10 minutes...
Anyone want to find out what the inside of these look like, Bass whammy and new whammy 4??? If they are the same, with the exception of the program, lets find out what model reader/flasher we need, and make them ourselves...
The eprom that is installed in the whammy has a program. If you have a reader for that type of eprom, you can caopy and flash another.
All you need to do is install that chip in a new whammy (assuming they are based on the same design) and you have one.
Aftermarket Parts suppliers for cars do it all the time. There is even a company out there that can reflash in the car using the OBD2 port. It switches the program from stock to modified, and can be switched back in 10 minutes...
Anyone want to find out what the inside of these look like, Bass whammy and new whammy 4??? If they are the same, with the exception of the program, lets find out what model reader/flasher we need, and make them ourselves...
PS: Just because Justin from tool uses one, should not be enough of a reason to remake them.
I think most companies, Akai and Digitech, should really consider reissuing some of the older effects. They may not have sold before, but there is a market now.
These companies could make alot of money reissuing authentic copies of the originals. The problem is what to charge... and how to make that money, and still market them.
Maybe we can petition these companies to release the programs, and get them built by someone else.
I think most companies, Akai and Digitech, should really consider reissuing some of the older effects. They may not have sold before, but there is a market now.
These companies could make alot of money reissuing authentic copies of the originals. The problem is what to charge... and how to make that money, and still market them.
Maybe we can petition these companies to release the programs, and get them built by someone else.
bongomania
Commercial User
