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basses for newbies (SX batch build thread)

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I guess view are different, but I still strongly maintain that these basses are still for newbies. One of the my current p-basses can still be had under $500 which is Fender's entry level instrument. I have put several of these into the hands of new students now, and every one has been thrilled to bits and the basses have accomplished the mission at hand. . . allow the student to progress and play better as well as inspire them to continue on improving. I agonize over the minutia so that the player coming in does not have to second guess the equipment.

A lot of junior high kids at the Nueva School music program have walked in, picked up the bass, and had their eyes light up because bass was fun! That's what it's all about. Jasaman is constantly putting these instruments into new player's hands to gauge the reactions and asses from a newbie's perspective what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong. One kid continually asks when he can play "the one with the blue strings" again (#4) because that bass left such a strong impression on him and showed what can happen when a player and a bass just click. Would that happen with a lesser instrument? I don't think so. How much play time does the school's previous Ibanez get even though it cost a bundle more? That's not to diminish the accomplishments Ibanez has brought to the bass community, but the instruments are not in the same league in terms of playability and tone.

I continuing to recommend these as an optimal option to new players because I still perceive these as a great value. I don't know if economies are different now than before, but upon starting any serious venture like music, I assume a ramp-up cost.

I am still very much building the bass that I would have liked to buy as my first instrument, and even though I have missed my target price point by ~$200, I believe these are still well within reach for the serious student and certainly a great fit for a school music program where multiple people will benefit.

I've expended a lot of effort thinking through a whole bunch of things that will help a beginning bass player down the road:

1. passive electronics so you don't have to deal with the dead battery (a bigger issue than you might expect in school music programs)

2. Reasonably priced replacement strings

3. How much of a boost in confidence is it if you were at your very first recording session, a bit nervous, and the engineer or producer comments positively about how your bass is coming through the monitors? What if the opposite were true and you're chasing some crazy buzz instead?

4. What if you're playing with sub-optimal audio support at a live show? It's nice to know that an idiot audio tech can just pull up the fader on the board without thinking and the bass will sound decent or great.

5. You can practice longer and be more relaxed on the instrument that has not just a decent setup, but an exceptional one.

I guess my idea of starter instrument is quite different from a lot of people here though. For that crowd, the trajectory that this project is taking is 2 lines. . . one that has all the stuff I'm doing built in, and the other sold right off the boat from China at low cost. I am quite pleased with the fret work exhibited on my sample instrument. The assembly techs from this factory have been properly trained and produce a good fret job out of the box.

This is not the case with stock SX. I would not recommend a beginner purchase an SX because it is the rare exception that one comes right off the factory floor properly set up, so with this batch of basses, it is non-optional for me to fix the playing surface. Utilizing PLEK, the end cost to the customer remains unchanged. I take a smaller profit per instrument, but also do less work. That's a trade-off I'm willing to make especially if I can up my production volume and speed significantly.
 
If a new bass player is anything like I was, they'll be more than willing to shell out the $500 it would cost to get a quality, well setup bass. My $450 Ibanez 5 string was my first bass and is still the only bass I've ever owned. It consistently out-performs nearly every other bass I play in the music stores around here when it comes to playability. The tone is not spectacular. This bass is not going to wow anybody in that regard. But I place a much higher value on playability, and this bass has that.

Chunger, I believe if you are successful in creating a line of basses that play great and sound good, they will be worth every penny that you have to charge.
 
Jasaman just left from a very productive evening of testing. A couple of thoughts have come to mind. . . the buzz issues I perceived on the PLEK'd basses are insignificant when the instruments are plugged in. With the absence of my rig, I've been testing acoustically, and that skewed my views a bit because I was plucking harder than actual. A reality check every once in a while is good as well. We had a Lakland on hand to compare. After re-setting the Lakland to recommended factory standard, I realized how ridiculously low I had crept my setup to. Jasaman reminded me that we're doing just fine. Low while a good metric for evaluation is not everything.

So, as it stands right now, I believe that the very, very best level jobs that I've done. . .#4 and #6 are in fact better than the PLEK basses on Dunlop strings for whatever reason.

But, the PLEK beats out my hand leveling more than 80% of the time even on the Dunlops . . . if you change over to DR low riders or Rotosounds, I'd say advantage shifts further towards PLEK. There is a consistency of quality from instrument to instrument that was not there before. I'd say the standard has been elevated quite dramatically on these builds as a result of PLEK. This conclusion comes from playing hand leveled instruments back to back with all of the new PLEK'd ones.

Another surprise that came out of nowhere is bass #16. This one sounds absolutely phenomenal. So far, all of the premium basses we've done have been under 9 pounds. This one weighed in over 10.5 lbs. and I actually suggested to Mooselumps to change the body on this bass to justify the mods he wanted me to put into it. In the end, I let him know that he knows his bass better than anyone else and if he feels this instrument sounds good and feels good, I trust his judgment on it, and holy smokes he was right. This one ended up being one of the very best basses I've touched so far. . . up within the top 2 actually. It sounds astoundingly good and plays ridiculous. Jasaman thinks you can actually put this one up against ANY other premium bass on the market and it will be able to go toe to toe. All I have left to do on it is polish up the frets a little bit to remove the tool marks from PLEK, and it can go back to Mooselumps. I think he's going to flip out. I am.

Goes to show right at the time you think you know a thing or 2 about how basses work, something like this happens, and you realize how little you actually know.

While i don't have the final electronics in all of the basses, we went through and ranked all of the ones we have on hand and discussed grading. Originally, I had wanted to hold the line on premium basses to the top 10% only, but we really did feel we have a significant number of premium-worthy basses in this batch, and a really good number of professional grade ones too.

What we did was play all of the basses we had on hand and slot them into a ranking best to worst. . . 13 basses total. Assuming #3 tips on the border of premium grade and professional grade, we would have 5 premium basses, 6 professional grade basses, and 3 standard grade basses. I will not disclose the rankings we did tonight because not all of the final electronics have been installed and that can shift things significantly. Also, Jasaman wants to bring in one of his friends to independently rank the basses and see if there is concurrence. Just for clarification:

I see professional grade as something I would not have a problem handing to a working musician for gigs and studio work. Tone and playability need to be extremely good.

I see premium grade as an instrument that must have some set of truly outstanding characteristic as well as hold to the highest standards of playability and tone.

Standard grade instruments in this batch are all a result of somewhat "normal" tone although in this batch, all of the instruments handle really well due to PLEK. These would be priced lower and suitable for an "on-the-fence" student or, we have historically sold these to schools.

Jasaman took a look at the high end of the spectrum and was extremely pleased with the number of stand-out instruments. He also looked at the low end and realized that the bar has been set very high indeed. Even a standard grade (bottom-ranked) offerings are quite robust and hold their own quite well.
 
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Did you read the post by Chunger? I'd say Mooselumps is entitled to at least one FTW-type photo.
I'm pretty sure I would give that at least one Picard if it was my bass that came out so well.
Another surprise that came out of nowhere is bass #16. This one sounds absolutely phenomenal. So far, all of the premium basses we've done have been under 9 pounds. This one weighed in over 10.5 lbs. and I actually suggested to Mooselumps to change the body on this bass to justify the mods he wanted me to put into it. In the end, I let him know that he knows his bass better than anyone else and if he feels this instrument sounds good and feels good, I trust his judgment on it, and holy smokes he was right. This one ended up being one of the very best basses I've touched so far. . . up within the top 2 actually. It sounds astoundingly good and plays ridiculous. Jasaman thinks you can actually put this one up against ANY other premium bass on the market and it will be able to go toe to toe. All I have left to do on it is polish up the frets a little bit to remove the tool marks from PLEK, and it can go back to Mooselumps. I think he's going to flip out. I am.
 
Positive conversations yesterday with representatives from Rotosound and DR. I'm thinking chances are good for a string switch. The Dunlops are very unique and have served us well. Obviously they sound great on tape and have a feel I've not seen in any other hex core, but I'm thinking I need to move more towards a middle of the road tension for these basses. Setup is extremely picky with these strings and in the field we're finding you can drive the string too hard when really digging in.

#3 came back to me with DR low riders on board that Jasaman changed out to, and they really feel "right" on that bass. Obviously I've been thrilled with the cool blue extra life coated strings on #4 as well, but the cost of those strings holds me back from standardizing on them. I guess much will depend on how long they last in the field. The extra life strings are intriguing because they have the squishy, pliable feel that the Dunlops have because they are round core, but have a higher tension which makes them behave a little better in my opinion. Cost is high though, and they are not available in the cool blue color at most stores. . . and, as we've discovered, the black ones do not sound the same.
 
German Robots? We don't need no stinkin' German robots when we have cheap Chinese labor!

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After testing last night, Jasaman gave me back #9, and I've been itching to get my hands back on it because I was never satisfied with the way it played. This was a great excuse to break out the jig that Lon built for me.

The idea of the jig is to level the frets while the neck is still under truss rod tension, so the jig simulates string tension and holds the neck steady so the leveling bar does not distort it too much while you level.

All seemed to have gone fairly well. . . I learned why I'm always having issues on the last few frets. Conditions there under tension are a lot different than loose, but I suspected as much because the right cut was always shifting from bass to bass.

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At any rate, I had to re-think my setup a bit for cutting the fall-off angle while on the jig. This was a pretty light touch-up because I had previously leveled this fret board. Once I put strings back on, I realized this neck may have deeper issues than I'm able to figure out at this point. I went back and forth a few times trying to narrow down the issue, but it seems I'm having trouble getting the middle section of the neck to play well.

At the end of the night, this bass is still not where I would like it to be in terms of playability and I've got lots of hours sunk into the leveling. Plus, I have 8 PLEK'd basses sitting there taunting me. . . "Look, we're all playing exactly the same" I picked up the worst of the PLEK'd ones to compare action and playability, and I'll call like it is. . . robots win. :rollno::rollno:

I don't have the measuring capabilities or the experience to pinpoint the issue. That's not to say this bass does not play fine. . . great even by most metrics and it has improved from my efforts this evening, but I know I've left potential on the table. I may PLEK it with the next batch to see what's going on. Hopefully, there's enough fret left to make the necessary adjustments.

This is a great illustration of the fact that on my best day, under ideal conditions, I can produce a bass by hand that plays better than the PLEK can (#4), but most of the time and particularly when there is some kind of problem hidden in the neck (very common), PLEK will be able to solve the problem WAY better than I can by hand. You know exactly what you will get, and the instruments are consistent.
 
A 2x4 was used. It could be a rectangle aluminum if I had a way to add the threaded inserts for the rods, knobs, and dial indicator mounts. Maybe I'll look into that mod.

Nice work in any case. Amazing what you can make with just a few parts and a stack of lumber. Looks to be the functional equivalent of the Stu-Mac piece.
 
I'm foregoing the long weekend festivities to try and get some basses finished up. One of the things I'm really curious about is this whole P/J business. #6 was the only P/J I've done so far, and it played well, but I did minimal mods on it (GFS P pickup with stock SX bridge pickup). Knowing now now clear and dynamic the Nords are, I was anxious to see how the "Chungerfied" p-bass pickup paired with the NJ4SE bridge pickup would do. I chose a dual coil bridge pickup because I wanted to keep the bass noiseless. It never made any sense to me having a single coil bridge pickup paired with the split humbucking P and have the "default" setting create maximum noise.

Well, here we go with #11. This bass has been PLEK'd already.

When I took it apart, I was amazed to find a whole bunch of bent screws and realized most of the holes needed to be re-positioned. I also discovered that the Nordstrand P-bass pickups are a bit shorter than the SX ones. . . which is why I never seemed to quite get the p pickups seated perfect.

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Shielding foil goes in. . . 2 foil tunnels in this one.

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This bass uses a side jack because it retains the p-bass pickguard with 3 holes.

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I've been starting to ground the alnico pole pieces because I was getting noise at time when my finger would touch the poles. This eliminates that problem. Since i already have a pretty robust foil shield that has great continuity everywhere, I just fold a piece of foil around the foam that's supporting the pickup. This will have a tension fit and give me plenty of contact between the pole pieces and the bottom of the pickup cavity --> efficiently grounding those poles and connecting them to my shield. I just have to be careful not to contact the pickup wire leads with the foil. I used a multimeter to confirm.

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The NJ4SE pickups already have this shielding built in. Because these are dual coil pickups, Nordstrand connects the 2 coils with a 3rd plate at the bottom of the pickup and used the opportunity to sandwich a piece of foil firmly against the pole pieces. They provide a separate ground wire for these. All I have to do is remember to connect that wire to my ground point when wiring up.

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All wired in. . .not as clean as I would like, but it will work just fine. notice I was forced to switch my push/pull pot from the first position (neck pickup pot) to the 3rd position (tone pot). This is not what I wanted to do, but the large full sized pot would not fit in the 3rd position where the output jack usually goes on a p-bass. I had a few changes from the normal jazz bass setup to think about.

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Another very common problem with SX's is the knob guts tend to separate from the knob housing. I really don't understand why this happens so often, but my fix it to put a dab of gorilla glue in it, and put it back together. It'll never come apart again.

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Well, #11 is officially ready to rock. I had to hand sand and polish out the frets to remove the PLEK tooling marks, but otherwise, everything has been well documented on this bass. Since my Thunderfunk melted, I don't have a test rig, so unfortunately, I had to play this thing through a Mackie 1202 mixer and monitor through ipod headphones. This made for a nice crispy, bassless test session but I've confirmed that it all works, and the bass sound decent even through that horrendous signal chain. I won't make any further determinations though until I can hear this through a better setup.

For now:

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:bassist::bassist::bassist:
 
I still don't know how you manage to hold 400 billion cables into ONE little hole on the jack grounding lug... lol :D

Last time i did that with a split pickup, probably 3 cables going to ground, and i manage to f*** up the jack and my left index finger with the soldering iron LOL :D

Gotta say, you're my wiring hero xD

Cheers, Chung! keep up the good work...
 
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