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basses for newbies (SX batch build thread)

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#781
chunger said:
The form factor of those Shuttles makes a whole lot of practical sense. If they sound decent and prove reliable in the field, I'm thinking about trying to put together a complete package so someone can walk in with nothing, and walk out with everything needed to learn, practice, gig, rehearse, and record.

Bass, gig bag, amp :bassist::bassist::bassist:
Click to expand...

Don't worry, so far anything Genz Benz has blown my face off!
 
#782
Fedex indicates that Mooselump's bass is on the truck for delivery today. . . INCOMING!

Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 12T combo arrived today at my door. I have not had a chance to open the box before heading out to work but this sucker is incredibly lightweight. Inside of its shipping container, it's more compact than my 2x10 cab without an amp. The shuttle 9.0 should also be inbound within the next couple of weeks. We'll see how they hold up.
 
#784
Shoot. . . now I'm the one waiting by my email for thread updates :D

Hopefully there were no gross neck shifts in transit. If there were, truss rod adjustment should bring it in line. I forgot to include an instruction sheet for the pot/switch layout.

position 1: Neck pickup volume pot (push-->neck pickup series) (pull-->neck pickup parallel)

position 2: Bridge pickup volume pot (push-->bridge pickup series) (pull-->bridge pickup parallel)

position 3: Tone knob (push-->global parallel) (pull-->global series)

Note: The bridge pickup volume control (position 2) does not work when the bass is in global series mode. Both pickups in this configuration are running in series through the neck pickup volume pot (position 1). However, in global series mode, the individual pickups can still be switched series and parallel via the push/pull switches in position 1 and position 2.

there are a lot of really useful tone permutations in there to explore.
 
#786
tk421 said:
i'm confused already. and it's not even my bass. lol
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Agreed. . . this is not a standard configuration. . . what's good about it though is if you just don't tell anyone you can pull up on the knobs, it behaves like a normal jazz bass. Nordstrand does not sell the NJ4SE normally with the wiring options because they feel the pickup is voiced for series mode operation and sounds optimal when run like that.

I'm a simple sort of guy which is why I dig the P-bass so much. I could actually live without any knobs at all except now I know the pots actually contribute to the sound even when full up.

My standard single push/pull knob on the jazz basses gave enough advantage for me to standardize on it. . . "Here. . . pull this knob for PHAT mode." And again, if you don't tell anyone you can pull up on that knob it's just fine. . . works like a normal jazz bass.

I certainly wouldn't put the crazy push/pull push/pull push/pull into say, a bass that's going to a school music program. Too confusing. . . but for someone who plays in a lot of different rooms and a lot of diverse genres, one of those settings can really bail you out every once in a while.


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Initial impressions of the Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 12T combo are not good. The speaker is still breaking in and I'm playing lightly on it for while, so take this with a grain of salt.

I feel the amp lacks transparency/depth and the cab lacks fundamental. Keep in mind, I'm coming from running ACME B2's for years and years, so I'm used to a rig going all the way "down there" and using tons of juice to do it. I'm hoping this is not cheap preamp syndrome. The Thunderfunk, Walter Woods, Alembic F1-X, MCI recording console pre, Great River, Ampex 351 all did not sound veiled like this. Perhaps the tube needs to break in as well. Power wise, the Shuttle moves the cones on a 4 ohm B2 just fine. I feel like I can drive the cab to limits with this amp, but no matter how I EQ'd or set the gain structure, I couldn't get the 3 dimensionality or transparency that I get from the Thunderfunk 550B even though that is a very thick sounding amp. Of course, the TF co$t$ quite a bit more. At this point, I'm less concerned about the vibe or color that this amp is voiced for. I'm looking for quality of sound. . . power, transparency, 3 dimensionality, harmonics. . . if it has all of these things, it is useful and the vibe can be dialed in, but if it is not inherently able to re-produce these fundamental qualities, it's not useful as an all-around tool. More testing and a 2nd opinion are in order. I do like the weight and form factor though.

Plugging the 6 string in really revealed the 12T cabinet's deficiencies in low end. Sounds very "tubby" to me. Not so much an issue with the 4 strings, but still tubby compared with the Acme B2.

Throughout the course of testing, the cab started sounding better and better, so I will continue to loosen up the cones and voice coil and see if the cab sweetens up a significantly. I have been proven wrong many times before, and this is just an initial impression on equipment that has not yet broken in. Can't judge a motorcycle if you haven't scrubbed in the tires, right?

Edit: Spent some more time breaking in the Shuttle 6.0 12T combo. . . the speaker cabinet is sweetening up a lot, but there will be no remedy with this design for the lack of fundamental in the cabinet. It simply does not extend low enough. You can't escape the laws of physics I guess. While previously, I tested primarily flat, I played a bit more with the EQ to obtain a usable setting for 4 string on this rig. While not particularly inspiring or fun (to my ear) at this point, it does get the job done and is loud. I hear high mid harshness and lack of bottom. . . that's where my EQ's are pushing and pulling to reign in the tone. I went reading on forum about the tube swapping in the Shuttle 6.0 and have a pair of JJ ECC83 tubes incoming. I did not feel justified in ordering up the Telefunken ECC83 to test due to cost and only 1 extremely positive review. It seems many other people have found the JJ tube to have a bigger bottom, sound clearer, and smooth out the high-mid frequency spike than the stock Ruby tube. . .these are exactly the problem areas I'm finding in the shuttle amp, and I'm hoping the preamp is very responsive to tube change. I am also eagerly awaiting the test Shuttle 9.0 unit as I hear it is voiced significantly flatter than the 6.0.
 
#787
Wonder how it would compare to the Fender Rumble amp.

Of course, if you wound up choosing that amp, your "package" would be nearly identical to the Squier starter package (Rumble amp and an affinity P bass). Of course, your bass would already be set up, and probably have better pickups.

Whatever amp you do decide on, I'd like to look into. I have a really cheap RMS amp, when I bought it I was simply trying to get the cheapest amp possible. It doesn't sound terrible, but it sounds as cheap as it is.
 
#790
Chung, glad you are giving the Shuttles a try. The combo is intended to be very lightweight and portable, and I don't think comparing it to a T-Funk/Acme rig is possible. It sounds like you like to play loud and with lots of bottom, and the Shuttle combo can only do so much of that kind of sound before it maxes out the little cabinet.

You've probably seen Andy and Roger's posts in other threads about Genz amps. Andy is forthright in saying that the preamp tube is not designed to color the sound that much in a Shuttle, so swaps provide more or less small differences in tone. It's possible that the tube in your Shuttle was marginal from the factory, or it was damaged in shipping, but it's not likely.

Again, the Shuttle 6.0 combos are not designed for a lot of low-frequency extension. The combination I predict that you will like- a lot- will be the Shuttle 9.0/Acme B-2. Or- talk with Roger about getting a NeoX or Uber cab to go with either of the Shuttle heads.

Keep those Chungerized basses coming! (still thinking about the vintage yellow one.)
 
#791
The Shuttle 6.0 is driving the 4 ohm ACME B2 just fine power-wise and can drive the speaker all the way to distortion if pushed past reasonable. If I require more volume, I'd have to add more cabs. I think the 12T cab is out of the running though. Can't blame a guy for trying it out though. Never now when a micro will jump out and surprise you these days.

I sent feelers out to Andy at ACME Sound and to Accugroove inquiring about dealer relations. I know for certain those cabs are to my liking. I've been using B2 since series I, and Jasaman has been running the Accugroove Tri-112 for a long time. These are in fact, the primary test platforms we're using, so if an opportunity comes up to package these with an acceptable amp, I'd be all over it. The ACME series III flatwound cab is very interesting and it seems ACME is migrating away from the direct sales business framework so there may be a chance of something happening. . . you never now unless you ask.

Thunderfunk is flying out for service though ASAP! Gotta get that back online.

Genz Benz dealer pricing was very attractive, and I was hoping to be able to package something really great for a serious, portable rig. Further testing will tell a clearer story, but for now, I'm still keen on Markbass Little Mark III + ACME B2 combo @ ~$1200. If I can't come up with something comparable in quality and significantly cheaper to offer or package together w/ my basses, I'll keep recommending that setup.

I dream of a bass + capable/portable amp combo ~$1000. . . that's my pipe dream anyways and it may just stay a pipe dream for quite some time just like the $300 fully built chunger bass with all mods. But, it seems some good things simply cost money.

I'm still on pins and needles waiting on Mooselump's detailed report to see if he feels his money was well spent or not and where bass #16 succeeded and where it fell short.
 
#793
MichaelVee said:
You've probably seen Andy and Roger's posts in other threads about Genz amps. Andy is forthright in saying that the preamp tube is not designed to color the sound that much in a Shuttle, so swaps provide more or less small differences in tone.
Click to expand...

That's what I was told too, they designed the preamp so that people could stick any tube and get a good sound, and not be stuck using only one brand. Apparently they test very old "NOS" tubes to the recently manufactured ones to make sure there is no difference.
 
#794
chunger said:
The Shuttle 6.0 is driving the 4 ohm ACME B2 just fine power-wise and can drive the speaker all the way to distortion if pushed past reasonable. If I require more volume, I'd have to add more cabs. I think the 12T cab is out of the running though. Can't blame a guy for trying it out though. Never now when a micro will jump out and surprise you these days.

I sent feelers out to Andy at ACME Sound and to Accugroove inquiring about dealer relations. I know for certain those cabs are to my liking. I've been using B2 since series I, and Jasaman has been running the Accugroove Tri-112 for a long time. These are in fact, the primary test platforms we're using, so if an opportunity comes up to package these with an acceptable amp, I'd be all over it. The ACME series III flatwound cab is very interesting and it seems ACME is migrating away from the direct sales business framework so there may be a chance of something happening. . . you never now unless you ask.

Thunderfunk is flying out for service though ASAP! Gotta get that back online.

Genz Benz dealer pricing was very attractive, and I was hoping to be able to package something really great for a serious, portable rig. Further testing will tell a clearer story, but for now, I'm still keen on Markbass Little Mark III + ACME B2 combo @ ~$1200. If I can't come up with something comparable in quality and significantly cheaper to offer or package together w/ my basses, I'll keep recommending that setup.

I dream of a bass + capable/portable amp combo ~$1000. . . that's my pipe dream anyways and it may just stay a pipe dream for quite some time just like the $300 fully built chunger bass with all mods. But, it seems some good things simply cost money.

I'm still on pins and needles waiting on Mooselump's detailed report to see if he feels his money was well spent or not and where bass #16 succeeded and where it fell short.
Click to expand...

The new GK MB210 combo ain't a bad little rig and retails for $600. Don't get me wrong it wouldn't be my first choice but it may work well for what you are looking to do. If your bass goes up to $400 you'd still be under the $1000 threshold.

Especially for younger players, school band rooms and such a combo amp would seem to make a lot more sense. If the power cord gets lost they can easily pull one from a computer if need be. With a head/cab you'll run into instrument cables running from the head to the amp, a micro head ends up in a back pack or simply a lost speaker cable.....

The GK MB115 is only $400, again a great value for the price point IMO.....

Keep up the good work....
 
#796
I bought a shuttle 6.0 to see what the fuss was about...I agree that it doesn't have that feel on the lower end for me. I am using a Markbass Little Mark II with Avatar cabs, and it sounds great. I typically just use a 2x10 8ohm cab.

If you could find a cheaper head with a 4ohm avatar cab, you could do some real damage there. I wonder how the GK MB200 would sound, and if it would have the balls?
 
#798
Good God. . . played #11 through an amp for the first time just now (Sunburst P/J). This one is a contender for premium grade. Made me actually not want to let it go. Ballsy and smooth with just enough bite to grab your attention. I think it has to do with the rosewood fretboard. #4 with the maple fretboard is more aggressive and has more snarl, but this I like. . . a lot. The "chunger" custom P pickup and the NJ4SE bridge pickup are working really well together, and the bass is dead quiet on all volume settings with the spit coil humbucking NJ4SE at the bridge. Pulling the series switch on the 2 humbuckers is borderline ridiculous :D I don't have much experience with the P/J configuration, and I am NOT happy with the final parts total on the P/J's (expensive). But of the 2 P/J's I had on hand, this one was the one I had high hopes for. I'll have to wait for confirmation from others. I won't bump an instrument all the way up to premium grade without a general consensus.

Even through the small Genz Benz combo that I'm not particularly thrilled to bits about, this thing is moving and the notes just seem to jump off the fretboard. I had a similar feeling when I first plugged #16 in at the music store (Mooselump's bass) through a marginal amp as well. All of the heads in the store turned and people said, "Wow. that sounds good."

I'm taking my amp-related issues off this thread and raising the question in the proper forum:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9714731#post9714731

Please continue to provide input on that subject in the above thread! I appreciate the advise.
 
#799
Alright. Review time has finally come. No sound clips or pictures yet. Just a short written review for now.

First of all. WOW

Now that's out of the way, here we go.

Right out of the box this was a whole different beast. It looked and felt like it had been really well cared for. It was all polished up and ready to play, with the exception of being a whole step flat. Chunger was not kidding when he said that the action was ridiculously low. The strings were all but laying on the frets. It was a hornet’s nest, but boy does it play. I tuned it up and started pouring through the pickup options. I'm not going to go into huge detail with that for now, I'll let you guys listen for yourselves.

I once read a thread where the consensus was that splitting inline humbuckers was not worth the effort. I have to say, it may have been a PITA to wire, but it's sweet. Each variation seems to change the harmonic and resonant characteristics of the pickups. There are no useless settings, and they all pack bottom. Sweet.
The bass is silent. The shielding is awesome. My fluorescent lights do nothing to this bass.

The nut is great, especially now that it MATCHES THE BINDING, KURT FROM RONDOMUSIC.COM! It seems to be cut cleanly and keeps the strings apart. Good job #1 GO USA! The setup is really spectacular. The intonation is the closest it’s ever been. The fretboard radius is preserved in the bridge setup, and it makes a difference.

The fret work is really great. The polish takes a mirror sheen and there are no burrs or any other issues along those lines. However, the fret tangs are somewhat sharp still. I never brought this up with Chunger, nor would the PLEK machine have approached this issue. It's not a deal breaker or anything, but I would have thought that the tangs would have been part of the fret polish. Perhaps I have a poor appreciation of what a fret job entails. I've only had one bass in for fret work ever, and it never had tang issues.

The action, as I have mentioned before, was LOW. The neck really went wacky during shipping. One of the main reasons that I've waited to post this review is that I was wrestling with the neck. Thus far I've loosened the truss rod a half turn and brought the strings up ½ turn per screw. This has alleviated most of the issues, but there is still considerable buzz. I have to let the neck settle some more before I can really tell where the buzz is coming from. That said the action is still lower than my G&L, which is bottomed out at the bridge. Still quite comfortable and easy to play. I foresee getting a great action, and I’m sure that the vast majority of this issue is that this bass was setup on the California coast, but is being played in northern Idaho. A larger change in humidity and temperature within the CONUS is hard to imagine.

My impressions? I’ve never played a bass that cost more than $1200, and that was a US Fender, which I did not care for. I’ve never played boutique basses, and I’ve done my own setups and string changes since I started playing. If Chung and Jassaman feel that this bass competes with top-shelf gear, I’m flattered. I’m not sure I agree totally, but this bass is a true player. Likely, I’m ignorant of the real potential of a bass in the upper class, so I don’t know what I’m listening for. I do know that it outplays my current axes by miles. It’s a great, balanced sound that I would not hesitate to take into a studio. My band mates love it as well. The harmonic content of this bass is just sick. Overtones for days. I can also get some real thump out of this beast. I thought that my Carvin BX500 was bass shy till I plugged this in. From what I’ve seen, this is light years ahead of the beater bass with the great booty I mailed to Chunger.

If you are thinking about getting your unit Chungified, here’s the bottom line. If you want to turn an SX into a Sadowsky, sell it and save your pennies. Chunger is honest, forthright and a great guy to deal with, but you can only polish a turd so much, you know? He will get your bass playing like it’s never played before, though. The pickup swap is a huge recommend from me. Nordies are my go-to comparison from here on out. I’m on the fence about PLEK. Chunger’s attention to detail and commitment seem to outweigh the need for a machine. He gets my stamp of approval, and I feel that I got my money’s worth.
 
#800
Hey Mooselumps. . . one of my primary concerns was the neck taking a major shift en-route. This bass should run optimally with roughly a business card's worth of relief on the neck at ~6th fret. Somewhere in that range, it should come into its own. Once you find the relief sweet spot, it should play like crazy. With PLEK, one way to find it would be to set action low and then adjust until you get the strings to buzz evenly all up and down the fretboard. . . then, raise the action to taste. Again from what I recall, a business card's worth of relief maybe a hair less.

I am very glad though that you had been doing your own setups up until now and knew what to do. I will have to think about this issue with other basses that fly in. I had contemplated including an 18" ruler and a feeler gauge with the basses and I may need to do that so people can get the neck back to optimal relief for certain.

This is one area where a 3 piece maple neck with graphite reinforcement rods is of great benefit. The neck would probably shift 1/2 as much. I find with these and with most fenders that I have to tweak periodically to keep a bass tuned up and sometimes significantly.

Wish I could come to Idaho and wrestle that neck back into proper position. I'm glad you're thrilled with the bass and think your money was well spent. In many situations including the DiMarzio Model J's, the push/pull configuration yielded tones that were indeed quite thin and really borderline un-useable. Because the NJ4SE's are wound pretty hot, dialing back to parallel yields very serviceable tones all around which is really cool.

The fret tangs are something I'll need to think about. All of my work was on the top sides of the frets. MAybe it's an issue of inexperience with the file, but I invariably leave marks behind if I go and round over the tangs and particularly on a finished maple neck am a bit hesitant to just go for it. The other issue is coming from playing a 6 for years (even though I only used 3 of the strings) I rarely make contact with the fret tangs on a 4, so that's an oversight I will need to pay more attention to.

Lots to think about here. Thanks for the feedback. I was getting worried for a bit there. I hate to take anybody's money without accurately representing the work I intend to do and delivering. Ping me if you have any questions.

Edit: I think you have an incredible bass, and my gut feeling is that once you get it dialed in to your style, when you play other basses, even top tier ones, it will be more and more difficult for you to be impressed because the one you have in your hands is quite formidable. Aesthetically and fit/finish, no, it will never approach a boutique instrument, but sonically, I think it can run with the big boys.
 
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