BASSISTS AND ETHNICITY

[palm grease]

I haven't claimed to have supreme knowledge in this area either, so please spare me your inflamatory comments.

but you assured me of the below.....

As a person who has been around many-a-choir, I can assure you that this rule of thumb holds true.

.......re black voices being "more powerful"

As for ignorance, I'm claiming that we are all ignorant on this subject because the truth is no one really knows.

i agree with the above... however your ignorance out weighs your humility.

If you can't participate without getting mad and making posts like this, then perhaps you should just stay out of it.

awww man, i aint mad...not one bit. but i will gracefully bow out of this....only because, well, i have no interest in the outcome of any discussion regarding to the superiority of any race. enjoy yourself and if you have any more "rules of thumb" pls enlighten us!

 

[morf]

How so? As a person who has been around many-a-choir, I can assure you that this rule of thumb holds true. Blacks tend to have much more powerful voices, and it makes a huge difference in a choir.

Do you have a reason for saying my statements are non-sensical, or is it just the easy thing to say?

Yeah you're totally right. I mean we all know Pavarotti's grand da was a big black man, but what's odd is he had a mouse squeaking voice.

Whatcha gonna do...

 

[Eublet]

It's not a question of superiority, or have I treated it as such. It's a question of differences inherent in humans. I don't see how humility or a lack of it could have entered the arena here on my part All I did was raise the possibility for discussion, and that somehow makes me ignorant and arrogant? I don't understand. It seems to me that the reverse is true. A few individuals such as yourself immediately think I'm off my rocker and want to start labeling one race as superior to another, so you arrogantly swat me down as being ignorant.

Perhaps I should bow out. I don't think anyone else is going to have the stomach to discuss this. It's just easier to tow the politically correct line and not even question the reasoning, regardless of any amount of easily observable (albeit superficial) evidence that might suggest otherwise.

 

[palm grease]

Perhaps I should bow out.

well no hard feelings my brother

this is one hot kitchen!

 

[Naggon]

There's only one answer to this question...

Scientifically, there is no such thing as race. One person could have two "black" looking parents, and one "white" grandparent, and look fairly white, while another person could have two "white" looking parents, one "black" grandparent, and look primarily black. It happens.

The assumption that different "races" have different physical or mental attributes from one another, on the whole, is called "scientific racism," and it was fully disproved in the 1800s.

It is true that this for some reason this idea has not seemed to sink into western society....

Another example is in running. For the past ~20 years, "black" looking people have won a huge percentage of high-profile running races (the Olympics, and what not), and so people recently have been suggesting that they are somehow physically better equipped to perform.

This is not true, however. It's entirely cultural. They win because, in the case of running, there are entire villages in Kenya and Ethiopia effectively entirely dedicated to producing such athletes. Their culture is streamlined to that one goal, whereas western society doesn't have that kind of focus, or even treat it as "normal," so of course it's hard to compete.

Also, these things come in waves. In the 30s and 40s, it was the Scandinavians who were dominating athletics, and people were making the exact same, incorrect assumptions that they were "athletically superior." Before that, in the 1900's and 10's, it was the British. Before that, it was another group, and etc., so forth.

The point is, "race" has nothing to do with it, and even if the majority of good bass players today WERE "black," it would be because they were enculturated with the idea that music is important, and they should practice.

Thanks for reading my rant. If you don't believe any of the facts I gave, message me and I can give you citations.

 

[didier]

PROPS to HIGGI for bringing the POPPER!!!!

 

[poyeeyancy]

you guys are missing the whole point. no matter what the race, just play the bass... because when i am playing bass i feel a connection to everybody i am playing with no matter what race they are. music doesn't see race and neither should we as musicians.

 

[higgi]

It's just easier to tow the politically correct line and not even question the reasoning, regardless of any amount of easily observable (albeit superficial) evidence that might suggest otherwise.

Eublet, I don't think you are a supremacist, but you are confusing culture and race.

If you are white as I am(mostly) then there can be more genetic difference between us than between you and your neighbor of what ever race. The key is "can be" it's not always that way but genetic studies have shown this is possible and common.

 

[doc5string]

Huh! I'm a white bass player. And damn good with killer groove. I've even played in funk bands. I'm not too good at guitar. Am I an exception?

 

[Eublet]

Naggon- Two things.

First, I would call into question anything that was factually settled in the 1800's based on biological science. We're much better equiped at making biological inquiries now.

Second, scientific racism began with an agenda that was based largely on aryan or nordic supremacy. It was not an inquiry into truth for the sole purpose of truth. The HUGE fallout that occurred because of it was partially what causes the resistance to "reopen" this can of worms today.

Also, from memory, I'm not so certain that it was settled in the 1800's. Large scale, international stances against the entire movement did not become widespread until after WWII, and of course, the holocaust. While I certainly applaud the solidarity that many countries and organizations took against the racial hatred of that time frame, I don't know that eliminating the discussion of our differences entirely was the wise thing to do.

 

[Vic Winters]

Differences between the races go beyond just the physical we see. Does it make me racist to say that black people are better than whites at sports? You may think so, but let's be honest. What race dominates football, baseball, basketball, boxing, etc. How many white people have been inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame in the last 25 years that weren't coaches or referees? How many Asian people are even in the NFL? How many Indians (not Native Americans) have been heavy weight champion of the world or have been Golden Glove winners?

Yes, I agree we are all fundamentally equal, we are all human beings. But that doesn't mean we all have equal abilities. Some people are born better at certain things than others. There are people who are born far smarter than I will ever be, and there are people born that can run far faster than me. Does it extend to whole races of people? Quite possibly.

As for the "sounding black" thing, it does happen. People thought Rick Astley was black when he released his first single. Dr. Dre was surprised Eminem was white when he first heard him.

 

[Eublet]

Finally, and I'll quit. I'm not saying each person shouldn't be evaluated on their own merits apart from race or creed. I'm just saying, as a matter of knowledge, it might be beneficial to us as a HUMAN race to understand the differences among us. If you feel it would be better to keep those differences hidden, then I'm not going to try and convince you cause you may very well be right. There's no telling how people would act if they thought they were better at something than another group. (Tongue in cheek)

 

[Phalex]

First, I would call into question anything that was factually settled in the 1800's based on biological science. We're much better equiped at making biological inquiries now.

How many biologically white parents / grandparents / great grandparents does it take to make a black person biologically white?? If someone is 5/8ths white they are still referred to as black by you? If so, what is the percentage of funkiness in proportion to the ability to play banjo?

 

[galore]

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination. I was wondering why many feel that African-Americans play better bass (Jamerson, Wooten, Miller, Chambers, Graham) on these boards and in the media. Take for instance South Park (a very bad example and prejudiced) when the character "token" was asked to play bass. He replied that he couldnt and the white kids said "he was black and was born for it." Is this fact justified??? I have observed that the most dominant bassists tend to be African-American while the most dominant guitarists tend to be Caucasian. I know obviously that bassists such as Jaco Pastorius, Flea, Jeff Berlin, Jack Bruce etc...are a huge exception. I suppose that it depends on the musical genre. Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians? This is merely opinion and I realize that I will be shot down for this thread.

Answer is simple:
Howard Gardner, a psychologist, is known for his theory of intelligence. He devided intelligence into 7 different factors, among them is "musical intelligence" (check this link and scroll down Invalid Link Removed) He (Gardner) followed Thursten's theory of intelligence (which is older and arranged for western cultures) and both of them have been confirmed in psychology.

People with African ancestors are in avarage better at playing instruments, dancing etc. than others. It's similar with athletics: out of 10 runners, maybe one or two will be white. There are different predispositions between races. Naturally, there are always exceptions and it also doesn't necessarily mean that if you're coloured you're a better musician/bassist that someone who's white. What's really important is: practice.

 

[Eublet]

How many biologically white parents / grandparents / great grandparents does it take to make a black person biologically white?? If someone is 5/8ths white they are still referred to as black by you? If so, what is the percentage of funkiness in proportion to the ability to play banjo?

Genetics don't work that way, so the question is moot. A dormant gene can appear from nowhere down the line. Basically, blending genes isn't the same thing as mixing kool-aid. So while your comment is kind of funny (I chuckled at it a bit), it's not that simple.

While we use descriptions like "half white, half black" to describe individuals, that really doesn't have much meaning in genetic context. I have some black blood in my history from my ancestors who, sadly, were slave owners. Before that, they were mostly Scotts, Poles, Brits, and Scandanavians who came over during the colonial years. I most definitely look white, but am I really? I am just a person, like everyone else. This is why race discussions fascinate me, regardless of the angle you give it.

Creationism? Why did God create different races?

Evolution? How did we all come to look so different?

 

[cowsgomoo]

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination. I was wondering why many feel that African-Americans play better bass (Jamerson, Wooten, Miller, Chambers, Graham) on these boards and in the media. Take for instance South Park (a very bad example and prejudiced) when the character "token" was asked to play bass. He replied that he couldnt and the white kids said "he was black and was born for it." Is this fact justified??? I have observed that the most dominant bassists tend to be African-American while the most dominant guitarists tend to be Caucasian. I know obviously that bassists such as Jaco Pastorius, Flea, Jeff Berlin, Jack Bruce etc...are a huge exception. I suppose that it depends on the musical genre. Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians? This is merely opinion and I realize that I will be shot down for this thread.

if there IS truth to that, it's partly because middle class white guys (like the overwhelming majority of Talkbass inhabitants) often like to romanticise cultures they're not part of... this 'soul, feel and groove' nonsense is one step away from talk of 'natural rhythm' and it doesn't do anyone any good

and maybe 'music of black origin' tends to feature more prominent bass than many other styles, and as a result, the bass players we admire tend to be black

as for 'dominance'...? that sounds like some kind of 'locked in a cell with a guy called Bubba' prison fantasy seeping through into your waking hours...

 

[Eublet]

Simple, it's not true. Genetically there is no difference between black and white people except for what ever gene controls skin pigment. As a person with a BS in Biololgy I find the whole premis biologically absurd. The differences are cultural not genetic.

Biologically absurd? How? Biology at the level you've studied hardly deals with genetics at all. The human genome is extraordinarilly complex.

There are certainly many more physical differences between blacks and whites than skin pigmentation. Hair, eye color, bone structure, facial features, etc. Genetics even controls a tendancy toward certain illness (sickle cell in blacks, color blindness in whites). Your statement is grossly simplistic.

 

[doc5string]

I refuse to believe I can't play like Wooten just because I'm white.

I refuse to believe I can't play like Billy Sheehan just because I'm black. Actually I'm white, but ya get my point.

 

[Eublet]

I'm sick of arguing with your ignorance. You are wrong, end of discussion. You have given no evidence to the contrary.

How am I ignorant? What information do you have that I don't that would cause me to see the light? I'm not being flippant or combative when I ask that. But to call someone ignorant means they don't have the information when you do. Please share. I really want to know...honestly.

 

[funkyfretless]

i think groove isnt based upon the color of your skin...just another stereotype