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BASSISTS AND ETHNICITY
- Thread starter jmcdan3
- Start date
My question is a bit larger, but why must we all be forced to believe that we are all created equal regarding every single topic? Doesn't a casual observation of the world tell us that, generally speaking, some groups are naturally inclined to be better at certain things than others? And if that is true, does it have to be a racial slur to think such? And it goes WAY beyond a simple black-white comparison. Such conversations are taboo these days. We as a society think we've become so smart, open-minded, and tolerant of the discussion of certain topics. Truth is we're far from it.
Agreed. I would like to clear up the Afrcan-American guitarists thing...I feel that there are amazing AA guitarists (Hendrix, Kings, Wes Montgomery, Robert Johnson.....) but overall some may associate that Caucasians have been more "Popular" on the instrument. Meaning that the average listener may not be able to recognize as many African-American guitarists as Caucasian ones. The same MAY OR MAY NOT true of African-Americans on Bass.
What media???? Seriously. A valid reference will do, not a South Park reference. I've never seen a black bass player in the popular press. Most people (non musicians) wouldn't know who Nathan East is, even though he was on stage with Clapton throughout most of the 90s, but those same people would know who Flea was.
Seriously, what media are you talking about????
oh....then
hmmmmm?
you do not agree with your observations?
dude....go play some bass!
The trouble is when people attempt to attribute such things based on race alone and don't factor in environment, socio-economic, or any of the millions of other variables that have little to do with race.
For every example where someone tries to hold up a particular race as being dominant, strictly based on race, there is always a counter example that proves it not to be the case. While I can understand the superficial perception that race may be a mitigating factor, I don't believe that if it were put to a true scientific test, that race would hold up as THE mitigating factor.
I did not say the groove was stronger in African descended people, I said that the music came out of that culture, so it is not surprising that the trailblazers have often been Black.
Good musicians can play any music once they learn it and develop a feel for it. Today, you can go to any music store and see very, very white student bassists slapping like Graham or grooving like Jamerson, just like you could go to a conservatory and find Black musicians playing Bartok or Stockhausen.
Honestly, the only time I see a difference in rythmic sensibility is in the dancing styles of different people. Generally, white rythmn focuses more on the feet, and more Afrocentric dancing styles focus on the hips. That, however, is very general. Personally, I am the worst dancer I know of any color!
Since when does popularity = talent? Just because a predominantly white media decides to "popularize" a white musician/entertainer/artist, at what point are they deemed more "talented"?
For example, would you say that Brittney Spears is better at what she does, because she has received more media attention and is more "popular" in the press than, say, Christina Aguilera?
You're basically asking "why do racial stereotypes persist?" Lots of possible answers, you could probably come up with a bunch of them yourself.
But hey, if you just ignore them (i.e. don't create threads about them), you just might become part of the solution.
But hey, if you just ignore them (i.e. don't create threads about them), you just might become part of the solution.
What he is likely talking about is the tendency in video or film to make the one Black musician a bassist that I see from time to time. It makes me think of a white TB'er with whom I have had some arguments who told me in a PM that he got passed up for a major recording artist gig once because her management wanted a Black guy even though he wasn't as good as the TB'er (at least that was his story!
)
Honestly, the only time I see a difference in rythmic sensibility is in the dancing styles of different people. Generally, white rythmn focuses more on the feet, and more Afrocentric dancing styles focus on the hips. That, however, is very general. Personally, I am the worst dancer I know of any color!
Well I think that may be based on physique. When you got a big booty, it's hard not to move it when you're dancing.
... back to the topic at hand though.
Race and talent in any given musician are purely coincidental attributes.
The media, meanwhile, has tended to present us with stereotypical images of musicians. Here are just a few:
The media, meanwhile, has tended to present us with stereotypical images of musicians. Here are just a few:
- White guitarists in rock, alternative, punk, metal, etc.: Bass is often overlooked in these genres, as most of the media attention centers on guitar solos and lead singers. It's no surprise that, despite the long list of talented white bassists, you won't see them mentioned much in the mainstream.
- Latin acoustic guitarists: Everyone knows the Hollywoodized image of the Latino on the acoustic guitar. Latino musicians on other instruments are consequently overlooked. Brownie points if you can at least name one (hint: he's posting right now...).
- Black bassists and brass players in jazz, blues, hip-hop, R&B, etc.: Because bass is generally perceived to be central to these genres (historically dominated by famous black artists), bass has come to be associated with blacks.
I understood your point in the first post, I just think it's wrong (no disrespect intended-you are entitled to your opinion). I felt the same way at one time, but I don't think it's true anymore. And I don't mean just for music. One reason I don't agree, is because I don't want to be biased by any assertion that might affect my opinion of a certain artist. I want to care only about an individuals art/music/output and don't care about skin color, race, what kind of car they drive or any other detail about them that has nothing to do with their art/music/output. It really doesn't matter.
It might make for an 'interesting' discussion, but really it divides us, as evidenced by many posts here. Even if we agreed with your assertion, what would we do with it? Someone with less grace (read:the general public) would ignore white bassists and black guitar players and that would be rather limiting, yes?
So to answer the OP question, I thought that might be true at some point, but I don't agree with it anymore.
Exactly. There are so many exceptions to this that well, you just can't call em exceptions anymore.
White man can funk. Deal with it
Yes, but cultural norms have embedded themselves into certain races. But why did Africans put so much emphasis on rhythm and it's intoxicating influence? If you go back a few thousand years, why weren't anglo saxon's spending their time gyrating around a rhythm section instead? Why do oriental cultures tend to focus so much on wisdom of the elders and tradition? Why have whites typically focussed on exploratory advance and world domination (regardless of the "form" it takes)?
We readily accept that certain breeds of animals have far different traits and qualities. Certain breeds of dogs are more intelligient. Some are more energetic. Others are easily angered and prone to excessive barking. Why not so for humans?
Again, why must we be forced to believe that the only difference is the color of our skin? Truth is, it isn't. Our hair is different. Our faces are different. Some of us have slanted eyes, others of us have large noses, and flared nostrils. Some of us with lighter skin are spastic in movement. Some of us are better athletes. Some of us are better at academia. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, and that there aren't exceptions in large numbers. But there is the tendancy.
Someone here mentioned scientific study. The problem with that is that anytime someone embarks on such a study, they are quickly demonized as bigots with an agenda, and their work is thrown out completely. I understand the fear, but let's get beyond that and just find out what the truth is.
We readily accept that certain breeds of animals have far different traits and qualities. Certain breeds of dogs are more intelligient. Some are more energetic. Others are easily angered and prone to excessive barking. Why not so for humans?
Again, why must we be forced to believe that the only difference is the color of our skin? Truth is, it isn't. Our hair is different. Our faces are different. Some of us have slanted eyes, others of us have large noses, and flared nostrils. Some of us with lighter skin are spastic in movement. Some of us are better athletes. Some of us are better at academia. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, and that there aren't exceptions in large numbers. But there is the tendancy.
Someone here mentioned scientific study. The problem with that is that anytime someone embarks on such a study, they are quickly demonized as bigots with an agenda, and their work is thrown out completely. I understand the fear, but let's get beyond that and just find out what the truth is.
Ridiculous. How well someone can "groove" has nothing to do with race. It's a matter of one's musical experiences and the musical environment in which they were brought up in. It's not like it's in the genes or something. It's a learned type of thing primarily based on experience.
Years ago I thought I'd never be able to be good at funk. Why? I hadn't spent much time with that type of music. My experience was limited. I grew up playing rock/metal, not funk. Then I decided to submerse myself in funk music. I listened to it and played it constantly. I watched and listened to other funk players. Slowly but surely, I developed the ability to groove. Now, this white boy can funk it up with the rest of 'em!
