BASSISTS AND ETHNICITY

[bongomania]

You're basically asking "why do racial stereotypes persist?" Lots of possible answers, you could probably come up with a bunch of them yourself.

+1
Honestly now, to whomever was demanding links and references, it's a known stereotype. I'm not saying it's right, valid, or worthy of study. But it's enough of a commonly-held stereotype that it's ridiculous to act like it doesn't exist as such.

Thinking of it this way- funk, R'n'B, and reggae are the genres that pop to the top of my head first when I think "what genres feature the bass guitar most prominently?" Those genres are strongly associated with black culture, even though absolutely anyone can play them and even become famous for them. Heck, look at Pino- he's as white as they come yet he's revered for his funky R'n'B bass. But that doesn't separate the genre overall from its strongest cultural associations.

All I'm saying is, it's a reasonable thing to observe as a stereotype, if nothing more than a stereotype.

 

[skaliwag66]

My question is a bit larger, but why must we all be forced to believe that we are all created equal regarding every single topic? Doesn't a casual observation of the world tell us that, generally speaking, some groups are naturally inclined to be better at certain things than others? And if that is true, does it have to be a racial slur to think such? And it goes WAY beyond a simple black-white comparison. Such conversations are taboo these days. We as a society think we've become so smart, open-minded, and tolerant of the discussion of certain topics. Truth is we're far from it.

+1

I hate taboo as much as you do, woo hoo!

 

[dragoon419]

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination. I was wondering why many feel that African-Americans play better bass (Jamerson, Wooten, Miller, Chambers, Graham) on these boards and in the media. Take for instance South Park (a very bad example and prejudiced) when the character "token" was asked to play bass. He replied that he couldnt and the white kids said "he was black and was born for it." Is this fact justified??? I have observed that the most dominant bassists tend to be African-American while the most dominant guitarists tend to be Caucasian. I know obviously that bassists such as Jaco Pastorius, Flea, Jeff Berlin, Jack Bruce etc...are a huge exception. I suppose that it depends on the musical genre. Anyone else feel that African-Americans tend to be more dominant and perform with tremendous feel, soul, and groove than Caucasians? This is merely opinion and I realize that I will be shot down for this thread.

It's a matter of culture. Western European music is traditionally melody focused. Western African (cause that's where the ancestors of African Americans were from) music was/is traditionally rhythm focused.

By the way, black and white are colours, not ethnicities! (Unless, of course, you work for the Instituto Brasileiro de Geografia e Estatística.)

 

[skaliwag66]

P.s. everyone who used the term "African-American' to describe a black person is RACIST!

Not everyone from Africa is black. Nor are all blacks American.

Not even all "black" people are "black" :O

 

[jmcdan3]

Yes, but cultural norms have embedded themselves into certain races. But why did Africans put so much emphasis on rhythm and it's intoxicating influence? If you go back a few thousand years, why weren't anglo saxon's spending their time gyrating around a rhythm section instead? Why do oriental cultures tend to focus so much on wisdom of the elders and tradition? Why have whites typically focussed on exploratory advance and world domination (regardless of the "form" it takes)?

We readily accept that certain breeds of animals have far different traits and qualities. Certain breeds of dogs are more intelligient. Some are more energetic. Others are easily angered and prone to excessive barking. Why not so for humans?




Again, why must we be forced to believe that the only difference is the color of our skin? Truth is, it isn't. Our hair is different. Our faces are different. Some of us have slanted eyes, others of us have large noses, and flared nostrils. Some of us with lighter skin are spastic in movement. Some of us are better athletes. Some of us are better at academia. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, and that there aren't exceptions in large numbers. But there is the tendancy.

Someone here mentioned scientific study. The problem with that is that anytime someone embarks on such a study, they are quickly demonized as bigots with an agenda, and their work is thrown out completely. I understand the fear, but let's get beyond that and just find out what the truth is.

I understand your point. THERE IS A TENDENCY. Dr. Cheese has noticed this as well as myself. I'm not saying there is a piece of paper that says "Black guys play better Bass" at all. I am merely stating WHAT I HAVE NOTICED. This may or may not be what anyone else has seen. You do not have to agree with me at all-I am interested in the opinion as long as it is justified and tasteful. Now as far as the scientific approach...I would disagree with its theory. This would spur up a debate on Social Darwinism and the scientific measurements of the human skull. In the past, these scientific results have led to discrimination because they show Causcasians as being the dominant race. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS THIS. The scientific aspect maybe should be left out of this thread.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Yes, but cultural norms have embedded themselves into certain races. But why did Africans put so much emphasis on rhythm and it's intoxicating influence? If you go back a few thousand years, why weren't anglo saxon's spending their time gyrating around a rhythm section instead? Why do oriental cultures tend to focus so much on wisdom of the elders and tradition? Why have whites typically focussed on exploratory advance and world domination (regardless of the "form" it takes)?

We readily accept that certain breeds of animals have far different traits and qualities. Certain breeds of dogs are more intelligient. Some are more energetic. Others are easily angered and prone to excessive barking. Why not so for humans?

Again, why must we be forced to believe that the only difference is the color of our skin? Truth is, it isn't. Our hair is different. Our faces are different. Some of us have slanted eyes, others of us have large noses, and flared nostrils. Some of us with lighter skin are spastic in movement. Some of us are better athletes. Some of us are better at academia. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, and that there aren't exceptions in large numbers. But there is the tendancy.

Someone here mentioned scientific study. The problem with that is that anytime someone embarks on such a study, they are quickly demonized as bigots with an agenda, and their work is thrown out completely. I understand the fear, but let's get beyond that and just find out what the truth is.

Eublet, nothing you said is that historically accurate. Whites have plenty of rythmn, it is just expressed differently from African styled dance. Do you really think those River Dance folks don't have rythmn?

As for exploration and world domination, have you ever heard of the T'ang dynasty of China or the Chinese naval exporation of the early 1400's that covered the Indian ocean all the way the East Africa? There is evidence that the Phoenecians circumnavigated Africa during ancient times, and some bits of evidence that suggest Africans made it to America before Columbus in limited numbers. Heck, if it weren't for very early African explorers, ther would be no Europeans or Asians. You are falling into to some hoary old stereotypes that a week of reading could quickly dispel if you were so inclined.

 

[skaliwag66]

Since when does popularity = talent? Just because a predominantly white media decides to "popularize" a white musician/entertainer/artist, at what point are they deemed more "talented"?
For example, would you say that Brittney Spears is better at what she does, because she has received more media attention and is more "popular" in the press than, say, Christina Aguilera?

+1 good point

 

[dragoon419]

P.s. everyone who used the term "African-American' to describe a black person is RACIST!

Not everyone from Africa is black. Nor are all blacks American.

Not even all "black" people are "black" :O

The only reason I used it is because I dislike calling people by colour, and I've heard that the term Black is considered pejorative.

How 'bout I just say person of Sub-Saharan African origin living in the United States. That better?

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

in a related note, i was watching JT on Letterman the other night and noticed that JT was the only white dude in the group. seems he maybe went out of his way to hire only black musicians. struck me as odd.

then i remembered the Talking Heads. in Stop Making Sense, the four members of the band are the only white kids on stage. seems they had the same idea JT had. interesting...

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I understand your point. THERE IS A TENDENCY. Dr. Cheese has noticed this as well as myself. I'm not saying there is a piece of paper that says "Black guys play better Bass" at all. I am merely stating WHAT I HAVE NOTICED. This may or may not be what anyone else has seen. You do not have to agree with me at all-I am interested in the opinion as long as it is justified and tasteful. Now as far as the scientific approach...I would disagree with its theory. This would spur up a debate on Social Darwinism and the scientific measurements of the human skull. In the past, these scientific results have led to discrimination because they show Causcasians as being the dominant race. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS THIS. The scientific aspect maybe should be left out of this thread.

Since you brought my name into it, I will say that the kind of late nineteenth century Anthropology based on skull measurements did not prove Caucasian superiority, it simply proved itself to be bad science.

 

[Vandelay]

It's an old "nature vs. nuture" discussion. In this case, I'm voting "nurture".

 

[jmcdan3]

Since you brought my name into it, I will say that the kind of late nineteenth century Anthropology based on skull measurements did not prove Caucasian superiority, it simply proved itself to be bad science.

I fully agree with that. Good reference to the T'ang Dynasty as well.

 

[DeanT]

First off...This is friendly thread and is not intended to be culturally biased, racist, or promote discrimination.

You're treading a very thin line here my friend.

 

[skaliwag66]

The only reason I used it is because I dislike calling people by colour, and I've heard that the term Black is considered pejorative.

How 'bout I just say person of Sub-Saharan African origin living in the United States. That better?

Not all sub-saharans africans are black
and how do you know a black person in america is living there?

 

[Rickett Customs]

Hey MOD, Are we still cool here?

 

[lunarpollen]

There is no genetic racial component that predisposes one race over another for "groove ability"

The ability to "groove" comes from one's exposure to certain concepts from childhood through adulthood that *can* be culturally/subculturally based, sure. And sometimes musical aptitude is a genetic trait, but it doesn't follow racial lines.

 

[Eublet]

My comments weren't even remotely referring to the cranial studies that were mentioned here. I'm saying there is something more going on.

Dr. Cheese, you've noted some worthy exceptions to what I'm talking about. Doesn't really prove much to me. I think casual observation goes a lot further than most people give it credit.

My point is that reality is often what we percieve it to be. If we never directly engage that perception with dialogue and study, we'll never alter reality. We'll continue to be forcefed that we're all created equal, even while most people don't believe it. And we'll do it quitely and like it because that's what we're supposed to do as good, compassionate humans.

My original argument here wasn't made to suggest that I have it all figured out, or that things are as I'm calling them. I'm in fact not trying to call anything. I'm just saying that we are different in ways that go far deeper than our aesthetic appearances. We have mental, emotional, perhaps even spiritual differences that reveal themselves in ways that we have yet to understand, largely because we aren't trying to.

 

[palm grease]

I'm not saying there is a piece of paper that says "Black guys play better Bass" at all.

uhhh dude....but you just wrote......................

Its just an opinion and what I have gathered from other bassists, television, and books

soooooooo, you didnt read it in any book?....... :scowl:


unless this book is made out of cheese...and you ate it's pages, pooped it out and the began to decipher its readings amongst all the peanuts and corn kernals! that would explain all your $*** Talking!!!!

ok...im done. this sand box is full of ringworm!

 

[MtManiac]

P.s. everyone who used the term "African-American' to describe a black person is RACIST!

Not everyone from Africa is black. Nor are all blacks American.

Not even all "black" people are "black" :O

And I have yet to see an actual white person too for that matter. Or yellow, or god forbid, red! Where'd that come from anyway... And many East Indians I have known are darker than many africans I have known. The whole concept of race is pretty general and unspecific anyway - what do you call the offspring of an african and a european? What if the african is "white" and the european is "black?" What if their offspring is moca coloured?

We're all coloured, just in varying degrees of brown!!

 

[Eublet]

And I have yet to see an actual white person too for that matter. Or yellow, or god forbid, red! Where'd that come from anyway... And many East Indians I have known are darker than many africans I have known. The whole concept of race is pretty general and unspecific anyway - what do you call the offspring of an african and a european? What if the african is "white" and the european is "black?" What if their offspring is moca coloured?

We're all coloured, just in varying degrees of brown!!

I prefer to think of myself as cappuccino. Light brown on the top, but all black under the hood.